Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [jaxrs-dev] question of Intraprocess or Inter

[Ivar Grimstad <ivar.grimstad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Som Lima,

This email counts as a warning that your emails are in breach of the Eclipse Foundation Code of Conduct.

On behalf of the Eclipse Foundation, I am warning you that one more email in breach of our code of conduct will result in an immediate 30 day ban from our communication channels.

Ivar

--

Ivar Grimstad

Jakarta EE Developer Advocate | Eclipse Foundation

Eclipse Foundation - Community. Code. Collaboration. 

On Thu, Mar 25, 2021 at 9:20 PM Som Lima <somplasticllc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I will take my discussion to jakarta-ee microprofile if there is such a list. 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 20:14 Som Lima, <somplasticllc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Again you think your opinion is the only one that matters.  I know you are wrong too.  Please don't make unsupported allegations.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 20:10 Reza Rahman, <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I am sorry, but you really need to be mindful of civility and stop trying to lob personal insults completely unnecessarily. It is highly inappropriate, unprofessional and contrary to the Eclipse Foundation code of conduct.

Please try and realize that we are all trying to help you out by trying to direct you to where you will get your needs most effectively fulfilled. This is really not the best place to be discussing basic concepts in decade old outdated books. The good folks at JavaRanch are focused on helping exactly in these sorts of situations.

Reza Rahman

Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.

On Mar 25, 2021, at 3:57 PM, Som Lima <somplasticllc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



As I mentioned to you before when experts in their field are wrong   when publishing books and materials  then it can't be basic. 

I understand you like to hog publicity but if you do not have anything to contribute then don't  and keep your personal opinions to yourself.

I was discussing  this topic on jax-rs where it was established the book author was wrong  therefore the discussion was fruitful until you  put your two cent opinion in. You  also stated you know which book I was referring to  is wrong.

There are thousands of people who have been misled  and have done nothing about it because of intimidation by people like yourself.

I understand you like to boost your salary and community standing by calling your self an ambassador.  Please don't carried away .

As I pointed out to you before and I have to repeat myself because you responded publicly . 

In the safety critical environment they write their own APIs. Third party APIs are not permitted. Your work is considered  substandard.  Nobody will be interested in your opinions or your products because you don't follow same rules.

I dismissed your opinion on the other list as unimportant yet you insisted on repeating it as if it were important.

Not to me. 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 19:41 Reza Rahman, <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As I have pointed out elsewhere, one of the best places for such very basic discussion is either JavaRanch or CodeRanch. There are even EJB/Java EE/Jakarta EE communities there that discuss books, tutorials, basic concepts, etc there. It definitely feels on the inappropriate side here. I am afraid I don’t understand the insistence on trying to do this on various Eclipse Foundation mailing lists, most of which is probably not the best place for this?

Reza Rahman

Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.

On Mar 25, 2021, at 3:14 PM, Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



It certainly feels rather inappropriate here, I guess there are other, better places to advertise your books.

 

Werner

 

Von: Som Lima
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. März 2021 19:39
An: Jakarta EE community discussions
Cc: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jakarta.ee-community] [jaxrs-dev] question of Intraprocess or Interprocess ? microservices.io

 

Ok sorry I will pursue it on Jakarta-ee because I think micro-payara implementation has shown that the microservices's expert should not be defining  messaging services as Interprocess communication only.

 

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 18:25 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As I said, it is off-topic, and I would like to kindly ask you to stop further pushing this thread here on this list. Thanks.

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. März 2021 16:33
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Cc: Jakarta EE community discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] question of Intraprocess or Interprocess ? microservices.io

 

The book was obviously WRONG when it suggested  binding was also property 

of either Interprocess or intraprocess. 

 

Interprocess communication has become a hot topic again with microservices.io

 

https://dzone.com/articles/microservices-for-java-ee-developers

 

JAX-RS is of course vigorously  used as the  client server API  in pursuit of the microservices paradigm, for this reason I thought it was a relevant topic to bring here.

 

 

 

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021, 18:23 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As this discussion meanwhile is concentrating on EJB, and as this is the mailing list of JAX-RS, I need to ask to move this thread away from this mailing list. It is simply off-topic. Thanks.

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 19:16
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Cc: cdi-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] question of Intraprocess or Interprocess ?

 

I disagree it is rudimentary because inorder to choose which  EE components to use and which to reject one needs to second guess the EE component specification developers.

 

Application developers  and system architects have to make such decisions in the commercial sector. 

 

Technology Ambassador and advocates want  application developers to buy everything they are selling. That  has been identified as the cause of  software crisis. 

 

If you know the concepts  as I do  now I can reject technologies  and choose to use them based on such criteria for example flexibility and future product planning.

 

Also for your information you have clearly not worked in safety critical environments . In those environments they develop their own APIs , third party APIs are not permitted. 

 

Simple put your work would not be entertained. 

 

 

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021, 17:54 Reza Rahman, <reza_rahman@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just my two cents - this sort of discussion is for places like JavaRanch/CodeRanch. It’s a bit too rudimentary for specification developer mailing lists at the Eclipse Foundation. It may even be too rudimentary for Stack Overflow. If I understand the book reference correctly, it is out of date by about a decade or so.

Reza Rahman

Jakarta EE Ambassador, Author, Blogger, Speaker

 

Please note views expressed here are my own as an individual community member and do not reflect the views of my employer.

 

On Mar 24, 2021, at 1:41 PM, Markus KARG <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



No the book is not wrong. It is just simplifying. At time the book was written, the typical use case was that enterprise beans NEVER were unsed intra-process; this scenario is rather now, so possibly the book was just old or too simplified.

-Markus

 

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. März 2021 18:29
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Cc: cdi-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] question of Intraprocess or Interprocess ?

 

 BUCKET LIST ITEM

 

 

Thank you sir.

 

I read in an o'reilly book " the difference between a Bean and an Enterprise Bean is a bean is an intraprocess (tightly coupled) and an Enterprise Bean is an Interprocess (loosely coupled). 

 

The two of  you  have clarified that  it is simply  to do with running in same JVM  intraprocess) or remote JVM(interprocess).

 

As you know for example an EJB like JAX-RS can be run in both  local JVM and remote JVM therefore the o'reilly  book definition was WRONG. 

 

 

I had in mind that if ever I come across experts I will  seek clarification. 

I can check that item off my Bucket List.

 

Essentially the two are plugins with one running in same JVM and the other running in two JVMs.

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

On Wed, 24 Mar 2021, 17:04 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes to everything besides the last sentence, as "container managed" simply describes whether your application manages lifecycle or container manages lifecycle, and it has nothing to do with process communication or binding strategy.

I wonder what you are actually doing? Writing an informatics dictionary?

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. März 2021 21:36
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Cc: cdi-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] question of Intraprocess or Interprocess ?

 

Thank you Gentlemen for shedding light on this.

 

It is very much appreciated and very clear.  I wish to move onto two other  descriptions to tie up a loose end.  "tight coupling " and  "loose coupling"  and find out if there is any relationship to Interprocess or intraprocess.

 

 

I read somewhere that " a bean is an intraprocess (tightly bound) and an EJB is an interprocess (loosely coupled)."

 

This text  implied intraprocess to mean tightly bound and Interprocess implies loosely coupled,  therefore further implied it is these properties which  differentiated the two.

 

It is my understanding an example of a tight coupling is with JSPs  for example  

<jsp:useBean id="person" class="org.example.model.PersonModel" scope="session">

</jsp:useBean>

A CDI is the same as a usebean  in my understanding

 because One declares a class then @inject/useBean for instantiation.

EJB/JAX-RS are loosely coupled by my understanding because it is a client server  API  therefore  the logic is loosely implemented away from  object instantiation.

 

 

It is my understanding you guys are saying that when either EJB or CDI are running in same JVM then they are both intraprocess.

 

However when an ejb/jax-rs is running  in the remote  server and for example the client calls has a  different IP address than the server ip address in that case this  is an example of Interprocess implementation.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So if the JAX-RS is running in same JVM then it is intraprocess and if the jax-rs is running as a remote  REST API  then it is an Interprocess.  Most definitely we can JAX-RS is loosely coupled because it is a client server paradigm. 

Please correct me if I am wrong. 

 

For any component to  qualify as either Interprocess or intraprocess do they both have to be container managed meaning running in a server ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021, 18:13 Andy McCright, <j.andrew.mccright@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Both CDI and EJBs are intra-process - they both work primarily within the same JVM.

 

EJBs have a remoting capability though I think that remote EJBs are being phased out (they are at least losing popularity to more web-based remoting mechansims like REST, GraphQL, etc.).

 

Hope this helps,

 

Andy

 

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 12:08 PM Som Lima <somplasticllc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hi cdi-devs,

 

 

Q1. Is an  EJB  bean , an EE component ,  an example of   Interprocess  ?

 

Q2 .  Is  CDI  bean , an EE component , an example of  intraprocess  ?

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021, 13:39 Som Lima, <somplasticllc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Q1. Can  one refer to EJBs as Inter process  ?

 

Q2. Can one refer to CDI  as intra process  ?

 

 

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021, 08:23 Jan Supol, <jan.supol@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

No. While IPC communicates between processes within a single system, client-server communication is about communication between two remote systems.

The corner case of the usage of client-server API for IPC would have been highly ineffective, because of the TCP/IP communication involved.

 

-- Jan

<AE2EC78CBB014D77A9014516EEFB5FA9.png>

From: jaxrs-dev <jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Som Lima <somplasticllc@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2021 5:53 AM
To: jaxrs developer discussions <jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [External] : Re: [jaxrs-dev] Question : another question ?

 

Is a client server API  also  referred to as inter process ?

 

 

I have been looking for a definitive answer to this question for more than fifteen years.  This is a very important  question for me.

 

 

Also Yes/No   please if possible 

Thank You.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, 28 Jan 2021, 16:41 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes.

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Januar 2021 23:26
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] Question

 

Is JAX-RS a client server API  ?

 

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 22:24 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It seems you still do not understand the purpose of this mailing list. If you have a question on JAX-RS feel free to post it here. Otherwise I'd like to kindly ask you to not post off-topic. Thanks.

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Januar 2021 23:22
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] Question

 

One client server API is same as another client server API. 

 

 

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 21:46 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I cannot see ANY relation to JAX-RS, actually, and I wonder what the intention is why you post this statement into the JAX-RS Developer Discussion forum?

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Januar 2021 19:35
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] Question

 

Personally I think  Java's Remote Method Invocation (RMI)  compute engine was the best  remote compute engine because of its language neutrality combined with its simplicity  and everything else is second best.  

 

I am not a decision maker , just an implementor of text parsers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Wed, 27 Jan 2021, 15:29 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

it is not who is asking but what whether the topic is about making JAX-RS API better or not

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 27. Januar 2021 00:24
An: jaxrs developer discussions
Betreff: Re: [jaxrs-dev] Question

 

 

So an Application Developer or System Architect   questions are off topic. 

 

They are considered lower class :)

 

 

On Tue, 26 Jan 2021, 17:24 Markus KARG, <markus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This is the mailing list for contributors and committers to the Jakarta RESTful Web Services standard, so anything that targets in making the standard better is appropriate.

But you won't get punished for asking other questions, too. ;-)

In general please understand that product-specific questions are off-topic, and there are lots of better places for user questions, like e. g. Stack Overflow. :-)

-Markus

 

Von: jaxrs-dev [mailto:jaxrs-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Som Lima
Gesendet: Montag, 25. Januar 2021 20:57
An: jaxrs-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: [jaxrs-dev] Question

 

What kind of questions are appropriate  to ask on this line  ? 

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