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Re: [jakarta.ee-community] Jakarta EE Development Workspace - Slack invite
how amazing to share such a candid follow up Craig! 

+1 on everything you stated, focused on: 

quote starts:
Caveat:  You do need to give up on expecting instantaneous response to your questions.

Benefit:  You get to hear what everyone in your community, all over the world, has to say.  (Leads to the "English only" question, but that's not my issue here).

Benefit:  Most serious discussion email lists are archived and indexed, so they provide a historical resource for people trying to catch up on what has happened before.
quote ends. 

when i  see discuss via public forums something as simple as adopting a new communication tool that enables voices & feedback where a safe environment makes it so more of us are willing to step in and share, I smile. THIS is what will lead Jakarta EE to an OK  future. 

I would love for everything in Jakarta to become more open to the Community to enable such a loop-in to quick adjustments that represents ownership and the understanding that 1 voice that has valuable logic is impossible to ignore or set aside. Craig- you and the others who have shared are valuable not only b/c you choose to show and share but b/c by telling your story, you bring us closer to understanding how to collaborate. 

Just beautiful, 


On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 3:35 PM Craig McClanahan <craigmcc@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'd normally not comment on stuff in the EE community list like this, but feel compelled to this time.  And, Emily, it's equally applicable to the ongoing MP community discussions :-).

Context:  ~30 year Apache contributor/member.  You might have heard of Tomcat, Struts, Commons, and a few other things I have been involved in.  Nearly all of my active time was before Slack et. al. were a thing.  Email was/is king.  If you peruse the archives of these lists, you will see *thousands* of comments/responses/help from me.

Problem:  Whenever your community divides channels of communications across more than one solution, some people inevitably get left out - not necessarily from everything, but perhaps from "significant" discussions on alternative channels.  Nobody has time to cover everything -- as we have seen from lots of comments, many people who would like to be part of the community, but can barely keep up with the email flow.  I was incredibly fortunate to (at the time) work for an employer (Sun) that actively encouraged my connections to the OSS world.  Not everyone has that luxury.

Solution:  Keep a single (IMYO email) channel as the single "official" discussion forum for a community.  May be old, but have you contemplated what an IM channel means to a worldwide audience?  Been there, done that, with teams on the West Coast of US (PT), all of Europe, Russia, India -- there's no possible time of day to get everyone together (or anyone together if you are spread globally) synchronously!  Give up on that goal, and you find that email actually works pretty well, ... once people get used to how to use it (you want to see bad examples of "use it"?  Go to random slack/IRC/Instagram/Twitter (shudder) channels).

(Re)learn to be patient.

Historical Note:  My wife (PT US) corresponded with an exchange student from Nigeria while she was a student here.  When my kids were in grade school, a teacher was pretty excited to share cultural insights -- maybe we could establish pen pal relationships?  Great idea, except that the average time to deliver mail was 3-6 *months*, with no guarantees.  The world now is a different place.

Caveat:  You do need to give up on expecting instantaneous response to your questions.

Benefit:  You get to hear what everyone in your community, all over the world, has to say.  (Leads to the "English only" question, but that's not my issue here).

Benefit:  Most serious discussion email lists are archived and indexed, so they provide a historical resource for people trying to catch up on what has happened before.

Problem Example:  Cord cutting.  Yay! I don't need to be beholden to a single vendor!  Boo!  I need to sign up for three/four/five/??? subscriptions even to get what I had before, let alone everything new I might like!

Craig McClanahan
(in case GMail doesn't do the right thing, craigmcc@xxxxxxxxxx)





On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 10:50 AM Emily Jiang <emijiang6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I share the similar view with Tanja on this. With slack, you want to have an immediate response for something trivial such as "I saw a link regarding Jakarta JMS announcement somewhere I could not find. Does it exist? " . "My PR is ready for review. Can someone take a look?". This is kind of informal chat. It is also suitable for something trivial and you will worry about sending spams etc. For anything significant and need a lot of discussions, I think mailing list is a better place.

I think we need to be frank with ourselves: no one can follow up all conversations and we don't need to. We should accept it. It is not a bad thing. Let's not to block the communications just becasue we cannot keep up with it. Personally, I don't read every slack message and I don't have time to respond and process every message on the channels I was invited. It is ok. I can always ask questions there and get helped. I'll help others if I am available or am directly tagged.


Emily

On Tue, Feb 11, 2020 at 4:34 PM Tanja Obradovic <tanja.obradovic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

While Slack is becoming a communication standard, it is still relatively informal way of communicating. The voting, decision making and key messages will be sent via email still. I can see on Slack one can initiate a debate or discussion, but we need to mindful that not everyone uses Slack so email had to be official way of communicating.

Thanks,

Tanja

On 2020-02-11 10:14 a.m., Werner Keil wrote:
Is it possible for Eclipse webmasters to set up some batch to preserve them or does Slack have something against that? 

Jeyvison Nascimento <jeynoronha@xxxxxxxxx> schrieb am Di., 11. Feb. 2020, 15:55:
The workspace uses the free plan so only the last 10k messages are archived.

Em ter., 11 de fev. de 2020 às 11:13, Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx> escreveu:
From all i know they are always persisted. 

Scott Marlow <smarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> schrieb am Di., 11. Feb. 2020, 15:07:
Hello Tanja and thanks for the invite!

Is there a web page that archives the Jakarta EE Development Slack
conversations?  If yes, that might be useful for referencing
conversations that occur there.

Thanks,
Scott

On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 3:55 PM Tanja Obradovic
<tanja.obradovic@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hello dear Jakarta EE communities!
>
> this is just a quick invite to all interested to communicate via SLACK
>
> Please join Jakarta EE Development Slack Workspace !
>
> Best,
> Tanja
> --
>
> Tanja Obradovic
>
> Jakarta EE Program Manager | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.
>
> Twitter: @TanjaEclipse
>
> Eclipse Foundation: The Platform for Open Innovation and Collaboration
>
> _______________________________________________
> jakarta.ee-community mailing list
> jakarta.ee-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
> https://www.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jakarta.ee-community

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--
Jeyvison Nascimento
_______________________________________________
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--

Tanja Obradovic

Jakarta EE Program Manager | Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

Twitter: @TanjaEclipse

Eclipse Foundation: The Platform for Open Innovation and Collaboration

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--
Thanks
Emily

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