| Re: [ee4j-community] An open proposal for the direction of future Java EE Naming |
Ondrej,
EE4J will not be the brand name. I am not sure why this suggestion keeps popping up, as I don't know how I could have been any more clear. On behalf of everyone involved in this migration, I apologize for my apparent failure to communicate effectively. If you have any suggestions on how I can be clearer, please let me know.
Similarly, I don't know how Will could have been more clear in his email you attached below that Java EE is not the name going forward. "Java EE" as a name and brand is owned and controlled by Oracle, via the JCP. Since the JCP is not going to be used going forward, using Java EE (even as a suffix) doesn't seem like a viable option.
FWIW, our legal analysis shows that there are at least a couple of the names suggested by the community that may be plausibly trademarked. But we need a couple of more days before we can talk publicly about which they are. Please watch this space.
On 2018-01-23 5:31 AM, Ondrej Mihályi wrote:
_______________________________________________Ondro MihályiKind regards,I hope that under these arguments you'll reconsider the current direction of the decision-making of the new brand name and you'll evaluate the suggested approach, trying to address the points above.Dear EE4J PMC and others,- last but not least, the community seems to extremely dislike EE4J as a new brand for Java EE, because it goes against the values of Java EE and the community. Among those values are continuity, clarity, and integrity. And by integrity, I mean that for years we've kept telling people that the correct name is Java EE. And with a name like EE4J we would have to educate people again and do a lot of explaining.- the name EE4J already includes the word Eclipse, which isn't appropriate for a brand name since it's already in the name if it's prefixed with Eclipse (Eclipse EE4J). Also, many people could correlate the new name to the Eclipse IDE and could think that it's a collection of IDE plugins aimed at enterprises. For that reason it would be better to use the name Eclipse E4J instead, loosing the double E as the last link to the old Java EE name- the name EE4J doesn't reflect its relationship with Java EE well enough, it only refers to Java (with 4 Java at the end) and with the double E as a hint to Java EE- EE4J is already a top level Eclipse project and while its main focus is on Java EE, we've also discussed that MicroProfile could be transferred under the same top level project. So EE4J isn't only about Java EEIn the end, I'll summarize my objections against using EE4J as the brand name and for using a brand that relates to Java EE better:I've already discussed this proposal with other influential people in the community before coming here. I've got only positive reactions, I was really surprised I didn't receive any hesitant or negative feedback. You may have a look at the discussions on Twitter or on the Java EE Guardians group.However, I feel that the only name currently accepted by the EE4J PMC is EE4J itself. I have multiple reasons to be afraid that this is very impractical and inconvenient brand for a continuation of the Java EE platform. But before explaining them, I would like to propose another direction to choose the final brand.Dear EE4J PMC, Eclipse and Oracle representatives.We've seen an already lengthy discussion about a new Java EE brand name. I acknowledge that most of the suggested names couldn't pass legal restrictions by various involved parties.
I propose to consider using a naming pattern of "<something> for Java EE". An example would be "Extensions for Java EE" or "Components for Java EE" or "Specifications for Java EE".
The short form could be Ext4JavaEE, E4JavaEE, C4JavaEE, E4JEE, I don't want to propose concrete names or short forms. I only think it's important to keep Java EE in the full name to keep the link with the original platform.
The idea is based on the fact that Java as a word is allowed to be used in the form of "..for Java". Similarly, it should be legally OK to use the pattern "...for Java EE".
2018-01-16 20:39 GMT+01:00 John Hogan <jhogan515@xxxxxxxxx>:
Well put Ryan. I totally agree.
On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 11:33 AM, Ryan Cuprak <rcuprak@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hello,I just wanted to express my disappointment specifically with the Java EE branding. While I applaud the efforts Oracle has been making in donating Java EE to the Eclipse Foundation, the lack of brand continuity going forward I believe is going to hurt the platform. I disagree that Java EE is perceived as being an Oracle technology. From my experience, it perceived as a standard with implementations from Oracle, IBM, Apache, etc. Ultimately, the confusion over Java EE branding I think will hurt the commercial containers (like WebLogic) as Java EE may no longer be viewed as a long-term stable platform with a future.Transitioning Java EE to new stewards and establishing new processes for the platform is a major undertaking. Rebranding is very risky under the best of circumstances. I hope that this position will be rethought or modified. Maintaining name continuity for at least a couple of years until the new process is up and running would go a long way to ensuring the success of this platform.
-RyanConnecticut Java Users Group
On Jan 16, 2018, at 10:04 AM, will.lyons@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hello -
Reza Rahman has recently posted a Joint Community Open Letter on Java EE Naming and Packaging. Our feedback is given below - most of it is context explaining our direction. We hope it is helpful.
Oracle has previously communicated that it intends to work with the EE4J community to:
1) Define a branding strategy for the platform, including a new name for Java EE to be determined.
2) Enable use of existing javax package names, and enable extension of existing javax namespaces (e.g. javax.servlet.*) to enable compatibility and evolution of existing APIs.
3) Use a different namespace naming convention, i.e. different from “javax.*”, for net new APIs/technologies.
Note that doing the above remains work in process, but it remains our intent.
The open letter requests that Oracle and other EE4J stakeholders work together:
1) To allow the new platform to retain the Java EE name
2) To allow use of existing “javax” packages for existing technologies
3) To allow use of the “javax.enterprise” package for new technologies
Oracle has already expressed its intent to do what is requested in point #2 above. This would allow for compatibility between EE4J releases and existing Java EE releases at the package level. We will focus on points #1 and #3 below. Why not allow use of the Java EE name, and why not allow use of the javax.enterprise namespace for all new EE4J technologies?
The industry has changed since the Java EE development process was originally created. The process was not seen as being nimble, flexible or open enough. Our shared goal is to create a more nimble process, with more flexible licensing, and more open governance that is not dependent on a single vendor. We believe this will encourage more participation and innovation. We see general support for this new direction from across the community.
This new direction implies many changes, starting with a change in the technology development process. The Java EE process, or to be more specific, the JCP process that was used for Java EE development, is a highly structured process that grants specification leads significant influence over how technologies are specified and implemented. The EE4J process will be different. It will be more open. Single vendors including Oracle will continue to contribute, but will no longer have the same level of influence over how new EE4J technologies evolve. We believe there is consensus that this is a positive step for the community.
This new development process drives choices around use of the Java EE name, and use of the javax.* package names for new technologies. The Java EE and javax.* names leverage the Java trademark, and indicate that the source of these technologies is Oracle and community processes managed by Oracle. As a critical identifier of the source of products to our users, we must continue to reserve use of such names using the Java trademark to serving that fundamental source identifying function. This will help us to maintain the Java trademark, which is in Oracle’s interest and in the community’s interest. We recognize there are likely to be requirements to create new versions of existing Java EE specifications that were already created using the existing JCP process. We believe we can work out an approach to allow use of javax.* names for extensions to these existing specifications in order to accommodate these requirements. However, if we adopt a new process for new EE4J technologies, as is desired by the community, we believe we must require that a new namespace be used for the new EE4J technologies that are developed using that process, and a new brand (other than Java EE) that includes these new technologies. There is a tradeoff here, and we believe that the net benefit of the new process warrants the adoption of a new namespace for new EE4J technologies, and a new brand.
We will work with the EE4J community to mitigate continuity concerns that accompany this change. We are making it very clear that EE4J will be an evolution of existing Java EE 8 technologies:
• We are contributing our existing GlassFish Java EE 8 Reference Implementation sources to EE4J.
• We will contribute our existing TCKs.
• We are intending to allow certain uses of existing javax packages as those packages evolve for compatibility.
• We are intending to allow use of existing specification names for component specifications.
• We are building an initial EE4J implementation that is intended to be both Java EE 8 and “EE4J” compatible.
• We will work with the EE4J community to promote the new brand.
These are positive steps we can take.
We support the efforts of the EE4J Project Management Committee to make branding recommendations to the Eclipse Foundation. We encourage the community to support the effort as well, and extend thanks to all for the continued interest in Java EE and EE4J technologies. And we hope to deliver soon more new projects with GlassFish sources contributed to EE4J!
Thanks
Will
ee4j-community mailing list
ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
To change your delivery options, retrieve your password, or unsubscribe from this list, visit
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/ee4j-community