| Re: [ee4j-community] Feedback to Joint Community Open Letter on Java EE Naming and Packaging |
Hello, Guillermo."The community has received well the idea of a more open and fast process. But that can be achieved also by reforming the JCP. The community has not been asked how to achieve that more open and faster process."The JCP tried itself to create a more open (fair playing field) process for years and failed due to legal reasons from Oracle - as explained elsewhere, Oracle has special powers in all JCP legal docs, and that's pretty much impossible to change. I'd say that's the more compelling reason to start anew somewhere else. For the historical reasons why that failed, you can look at the JCP EC archives for years (my company joined the EC in 2014 and I followed the end of that)
"Again, you are taking for granted the community prefers a new process that replaces the JCP over the continuation of the Java EE brand. Some public polls show different results, although they were all run from a subjective part of the community."There's no "community" universally represented: there are players, bigger and smaller. I'd say that major contributors to the Java EE Ecosystem prefer something else, even if others (myself included) think that the JCP way would be better, if not for continuity. But me (and my company) are not major Java EE stakeholders. So, I respect their decision and work with that.
Regards,Leo._______________________________________________On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Guillermo González de Agüero <z06.guillermo@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi,First I'd like to thank you for this sincere explanation that leaves behind the legal reasons that used to be told.That said, I can't agree with the observations.El mar., 16 ene. 2018 16:05, <will.lyons@xxxxxxxxxx> escribió:Hello -
Reza Rahman has recently posted a Joint Community Open Letter on Java EE Naming and Packaging. Our feedback is given below - most of it is context explaining our direction. We hope it is helpful.
Oracle has previously communicated that it intends to work with the EE4J community to:
1) Define a branding strategy for the platform, including a new name for Java EE to be determined.
2) Enable use of existing javax package names, and enable extension of existing javax namespaces (e.g. javax.servlet.*) to enable compatibility and evolution of existing APIs.
3) Use a different namespace naming convention, i.e. different from “javax.*”, for net new APIs/technologies.
Note that doing the above remains work in process, but it remains our intent.
The open letter requests that Oracle and other EE4J stakeholders work together:
1) To allow the new platform to retain the Java EE name
2) To allow use of existing “javax” packages for existing technologies
3) To allow use of the “javax.enterprise” package for new technologies
Oracle has already expressed its intent to do what is requested in point #2 above. This would allow for compatibility between EE4J releases and existing Java EE releases at the package level. We will focus on points #1 and #3 below. Why not allow use of the Java EE name, and why not allow use of the javax.enterprise namespace for all new EE4J technologies?
The industry has changed since the Java EE development process was originally created. The process was not seen as being nimble, flexible or open enough. Our shared goal is to create a more nimble process, with more flexible licensing, and more open governance that is not dependent on a single vendor. We believe this will encourage more participation and innovation. We see general support for this new direction from across the community.The community has received well the idea of a more open and fast process. But that can be achieved also by reforming the JCP. The community has not been asked how to achieve that more open and faster process.
This new direction implies many changes, starting with a change in the technology development process. The Java EE process, or to be more specific, the JCP process that was used for Java EE development, is a highly structured process that grants specification leads significant influence over how technologies are specified and implemented. The EE4J process will be different. It will be more open. Single vendors including Oracle will continue to contribute, but will no longer have the same level of influence over how new EE4J technologies evolve. We believe there is consensus that this is a positive step for the community.Agreed.
This new development process drives choices around use of the Java EE name, and use of the javax.* package names for new technologies. The Java EE and javax.* names leverage the Java trademark, and indicate that the source of these technologies is Oracle and community processes managed by Oracle. As a critical identifier of the source of products to our users, we must continue to reserve use of such names using the Java trademark to serving that fundamental source identifying function. This will help us to maintain the Java trademark, which is in Oracle’s interest and in the community’s interest. We recognize there are likely to be requirements to create new versions of existing Java EE specifications that were already created using the existing JCP process. We believe we can work out an approach to allow use of javax.* names for extensions to these existing specifications in order to accommodate these requirements. However, if we adopt a new process for new EE4J technologies, as is desired by the community, we believe we must require that a new namespace be used for the new EE4J technologies that are developed using that process, and a new brand (other than Java EE) that includes these new technologies. There is a tradeoff here, and we believe that the net benefit of the new process warrants the adoption of a new namespace for new EE4J technologies, and a new brand.Again, you are taking for granted the community prefers a new process that replaces the JCP over the continuation of the Java EE brand. Some public polls show different results, although they were all run from a subjective part of the community.I can understand Oracle doesn't want to give away the javax.* package without a way to control the quality of the code published under it. But that can be easily solved by granting access only to existig packages and the javax.enterprise.* package. New JCP JSRs should not be allowed to use that subpackage in order to avoid collisions.Users will be warned that code under that package is not under Oracle's control.For me this is not only a thing of Java EE. It affects the whole Java ecosystem. Servlets are an official Java API and that's why we hsve so many implementations and libraries based on them. I doubt it would have been that way if they were originally created by a non official group.With no JSON-B what would differenciate "EE4J Json binding" from Jackson or Gson? It would be just another library in the market, vanishing the idea of the "standard".I don't believe this is what the community wants, but I'll be happy to accept my error if an independent poll is made asking what people prefer:- A new more open and faster process, totally leaving the JCP, with the package and branding tradeoff, or- A new more open and faster process, that then fills JSRs to the JCP (like OpenJDK or Microprofile Config), retaining the freedom to use the packages (I accept to lose the Java EE name here since the final product would be delivered by Eclipse)._______________________________________________
We will work with the EE4J community to mitigate continuity concerns that accompany this change. We are making it very clear that EE4J will be an evolution of existing Java EE 8 technologies:
• We are contributing our existing GlassFish Java EE 8 Reference Implementation sources to EE4J.
• We will contribute our existing TCKs.
• We are intending to allow certain uses of existing javax packages as those packages evolve for compatibility.
• We are intending to allow use of existing specification names for component specifications.
• We are building an initial EE4J implementation that is intended to be both Java EE 8 and “EE4J” compatible.
• We will work with the EE4J community to promote the new brand.
These are positive steps we can take.
We support the efforts of the EE4J Project Management Committee to make branding recommendations to the Eclipse Foundation. We encourage the community to support the effort as well, and extend thanks to all for the continued interest in Java EE and EE4J technologies. And we hope to deliver soon more new projects with GlassFish sources contributed to EE4J!
Thanks
Will
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