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Re: [ee4j-community] ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 83
I can confirm there will not be any Java EE 9 effort that is led by Oracle. Honestly I'll be pleasantly surprised if there is any Oracle investment into EE4J once Java EE is successfully moved here. I do expect though that WebLogic will implement whatever comes out of EE4J at least in the near future.

What WebLogic's ultimate fate will be under Oracle long term is anyone's guess. Let's hope they are smart enough to figure out the middleware revenue/mindshare they will lose by not evolving WebLogic like the other Java EE vendors will never be made up by whatever they aim to gain through their non-EE endeavours on the cloud. Then again, Oracle seems to only learn these things the hard way and repeats its mistakes continually. Anyone remember project Avatar? Sadly that's not the only failed endeavour Oracle diverted Java EE resources to...

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Werner Keil <werner.keil@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: 10/12/17 7:52 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] ee4j-community Digest, Vol 2, Issue 83

Ryan,

There was no evidence, there will be any Java EE 9 led by Oracle. 
We have to wait till the minutes from the EC F2F are published, because it was also discussed there, but maybe some JavaOne sessions equally brushed it. I was not in so many of them other than about JSR 375 this time, but others could tell. 

The fuzz about Project Fn with some former Java EE Spec Leads heavily involved does not sound like Java EE "containers" are of much interest to Oracle now. How this will affect key products like WebLogic one can only speculate, but it might well be along the lines of how Microsoft tries to move more and more of its customers from traditional Office products to Cloud based Office 365. 

As a bizarre irony, like Docker itself the foundation of Project Fn is Google's Go language (if it were not Open Source, I'd be curious to see another lawsuit, but maybe the Android vs. Java lawsuit is going to be settled) and there are only API bindings for Java or other languages.

I doubt we'll see Java EE 9, not under that name and not by Oracle.

Werner


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Process Question (Ryan Cuprak)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2017 19:09:35 -0400
From: Ryan Cuprak <rcuprak@xxxxxxxxx>
To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Process Question
Message-ID: <5679CD65-9777-46DE-8E08-32517BB7CE99@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks for the replies - they were very helpful.

What type of process changes are being envisioned for EE4J? Is the JCP being used as the template for creating the new process or is some other model being considered?

I understand that EE4J will be separate from the JCP, my question about the JCP was more aimed at whether that process will be adopted and than modified. If you were with an organization that signed off on JCP participation (full member), would you have to go back through your legal department to participate in the EE4J? If I understand it correctly, the JCP member ship levels (Full Member vs. Observer) are driven at least partly by IP concerns.

Regarding licensing/certification, in my opinion it will be critical to ensure that EE implementations be compliant so there isn?t confusion. We also don?t want to have the specification ?fork? in the future.

I really hope that Java EE 9 gets under way while EE4J is getting organized. At JavaOne 2016 a preliminary roadmap for EE 9 was announced - a year later I didn?t hear anything about those proposals (hopefully I missed to).

-Ryan

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 5:52 PM, Kevin Sutter <sutter@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> One clarification, Martijn on Question 5...  Otherwise, good responses to Ryan's questions.  Thanks.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Kevin Sutter
> STSM, MicroProfile and Java EE architect
> e-mail:  sutter@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:sutter@xxxxxxxxxx>     Twitter:  @kwsutter
> phone: tl-553-3620 (office), 507-253-3620 (office)
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter <https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinwsutter>
>
> ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org <mailto:ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote on 10/12/2017 02:58:22 PM:
>
> > From: Martijn Verburg <martijnverburg@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:martijnverburg@gmail.com>>
> > To: EE4J community discussions <ee4j-community@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ee4j-community@eclipse.org>>
> > Date: 10/12/2017 02:58 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ee4j-community] Process Question
> > Sent by: ee4j-community-bounces@eclipse.org <mailto:ee4j-community-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> > Hi Ryan,
> >
> > As Mike previously mentioned a lot of this has to be worked out.
> > I'm hoping the project charter will be approved on the 23rd of Oct
> > which will then allow the PMC to be formed and so on...
> >
> > That said I'll take a stab at some of the likely directions.
> >
> > On 12 October 2017 at 20:08, Ryan Cuprak <rcuprak@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >  I have a couple of questions regarding the path forward with Java EE:
> >  1. Are implementations going to ?license? the name in some legally
> > binding way?
> >
> > I really don't know yet, but I'm sensing that most folks want some
> > sort of certification / compliance pass mark.  Whether that's a
> > legally binding license I think is up to the community to decide.
> >
> >  2. Are there going to be requirements on licenses, such as an
> > implementation has to support version X for Y number of years and
> > release a new version within a specific period of time?
> >
> > Same as above.
> >
> >  3. How will enforcement of compliance be done?
> >
> > If compliance is mandated, then a TCK like mechanism would seem to
> > be the common approach here (again, only if this what the community wants it)
> >
> >  4. What were Sun/Oracle?s license requirements? Is that public by chance?
> >
> > Mike covered that I think.
> >
> >  5. Is the JCP process being totally tossed?
> >
> > I'd say yes.  Oracle doesn't want EE4J governed in the JCP and
> > frankly nor do any of the vendors and nor do a good chunk of the
> > users (I appreciate there are more than just 1 who would like it to
> > stay there).  Again I feel that way not because Oracle was evil or
> > terrible, but the fact remains that the JCP is not an independent
> > body, and so I think something new is required.
>
> The JCP and JCP process are not going away or being disbanded.  They will still exist and function in the same capacity as they do today.  There are Java SE and even Java EE JSRs (Configuration JSR, for example) that are still using the JCP processes.
>
> The question is whether EE4J will us the JCP process.  In that regard, then I would tend to agree with Martijn's answer.  The current thinking is that some other yet-to-be-determined process will be used for ratifying EE4J specifications.
>
> >
> >  6. Are the spec leads for EE 8 going to lead the specs for EE4J?
> >
> > Up to the community to decide but I think you've already seen RedHat
> > and IBM offer to take lead on several JSRs and Oracle (not binding
> > them to anything here) also indicated that they would take
> > leadership for other specs if asked to do so.
> >
> >  5. Will work continue in the JCP on EE 9 while EE4J gets going or
> > is everything grinding to a halt?
> >
> > I think that will stop, would need an Oracle answer on that one though.
> >
> > My thoughts, I?ve been trying to educate JUG members and my employer
> > on the JCP. If someone had a complaint or suggestion I would tell
> > them to submit feedback to the relevant spec. Should JUGs continue
> > to pursue adopt-a-jsr? I would rather see a gradual evolution than a
> > revamp of the process.
> >
> > I'll be encouraging all Adopt a JSR folks to simply move to the EE4J
> > community and engage in a traditional open source project manner.
> > The final barriers have effectively been removed, so there won't be
> > a need for a separate programme, just that folks contribute at Eclipse :-).
> >
> > Regarding the charter, instead of a ?nimble? process, I would rather
> > see goals - one release a year with a point release or consistent
> > and predictable updates etc.. I wouldn?t start out a charter by
> > pointing out flaws but that is just my opinion.
> >
> > That's good feedback, I think another version of the charter is
> > coming out in the next few days, so *please* do comment on that
> > aspect again there.
> >
> > BTW: I did see the blog entry "On Naming, or Why EE4J Does Not Suck?
> > but I have to comment that as a JUG leader, the EE4J name definitely
> > stirred passions. The last time I received negative feedback was
> > when Oracle bought Sun. I received text messages and emails
> > complaining before I saw the announcement.
> >
> > Naming is hard, naming by committee is impossible.  That said EE4J
> > is the Eclipse Project name and will not be the actual branding /
> > certification name, which is something the community can come up
> > with (after much bikeshedding one suspects ;p).
> >
> > Thanks Ryan they were thought provoking Q's!
> >
> >
> >  -Ryan
> >
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