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[] Fwd: [eclipse-ide-wg] Fwd: Re: [jdt-dev] General discussion about community (Re: Telling GitHub to rebuild, rebase, ...)

FYI - I think this is worthy of adding to the list along with the other items we discussed at the last call:
Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jonah Graham <jonah@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 13 Sept 2022 at 14:20
Subject: Re: [eclipse-ide-wg] Fwd: Re: [jdt-dev] General discussion about community (Re: Telling GitHub to rebuild, rebase, ...)
To: Discussions on Eclipse IDE Working Group <eclipse-ide-wg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Stephan Herrmann <stephan.herrmann@xxxxxxxxx>

Thank you Andrey. And thank you Stephan for highlighting the challenges. I will make sure it is included in the list of possible items to fund in the next round of IDE WG fundings. The planning council has been asked by the IDE WG Steering committee to make suggestions.


Jonah Graham
Kichwa Coders

On Tue, 13 Sept 2022 at 14:12, Andrey Loskutov <loskutov@xxxxxx> wrote:
Hi group,

Please check the last part ("Future" topic) in the mail from Stephan below.

I know we planned spent money for SWT work.
JDT project is currently in no better situation, especially because of fast Java language development and very small size of JDT core team.
IMHO We should consider to support JDT project with human resources to make sure Eclipse stays relevant as *Java* IDE too, not just as RCP platform. Means, ideally we would need one or more full time JDT committer working in compiler area.

-------- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --------
Von: Stephan Herrmann <stephan.herrmann@xxxxxxxxx>
Gesendet: 13. September 2022 17:29:14 MESZ
An: jdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: [jdt-dev] General discussion about community (Re: Telling GitHub to rebuild, rebase, ...)

Thanks, I think it helps to have this spelled out explicitly.

Three comments:

In my understanding we owe the precious assets of what is JDT today mostly to the efforts of an excellent team (with sub-teams per component). Most of my own involvement happened as a member of a team.

Current changes:
I have an itch in my nose that much of this cultural change is happening "accidentally", as a consequence of a switch of technology (which was not the free decision of JDT). That's why I raised questions that to some looked like purely technical in nature, but should be seen with a flavor of discussing our culture. I personally prefer explicit choices over accidental ones :)

If the "community" approach wants to prove its superiority, it will have to tackle some hard challenges. JDT is not only about adding some nifty usability features at your leisure, but JDT *must* keep pace with the release schedule of new Java versions. For each new language version, support in JDT starts with heavy work in the compiler. If that fails, all fail. During the last cycles, the Bangalore team (sic) has heroically shouldered that task, with lots of overtime. There have been Java releases, where the power in Bangalore did not suffice (8 & 9), but in those times the team grew until we were able to complete the job. I don't know what will happen when/if, e.g., Project Valhalla will hit the release ramp. I'm not sure JDT - in its new setup - will survive that. Who would want to use a Java IDE that doesn't support the latest versions of Java? For quite some time my offer to train a new compiler engineer has not seen much response. Generally the community doesn't seem to be very keen on compiler maintenance. If the community wants to prove my worries wrong, they better accept this challenge. There is a possibility of terminal failure.

good luck,
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Kind regards,
Andrey Loskutov
Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих
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