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RE: [] Notes from a Heretic: Why do we havethe Ganymede update site?

Title: New Page 1
Hi Bjorn,
talking about the DSDP-TM project: We're currently part of the JEE
package, but not any other package. A big deal of our users come
from the C/C++/Embedded camp so they would be starting off with
the C/C++ package - which doesn't have TM (or DD) built in.
Other Eclipse add-ons such as Subversive, or ECF are in a similar
situation. And then their are all the users who want to create their
own Flavor of Eclipse by, say, starting off with the C/C++ package
but mixing in some Web/XML Editing stuff (which would otherwise
be in another package).
Summing up, the packages are nice to start with, but they don't
by any means replace the Ganymede Site as the one-stop-shop
for a user-defined mix of downloads that's all nicely integrated.
Answering to your challenging questions, with DSDP-TM as
a concrete example:
  • The TM update site is *not* built into the starting off package.
  • So, end users need to find the project-specific update site(s) for any add-ons. Multiply the effort of finding a proper update or download site, and proper version, by the number of mix-ins desired (DSDP-TM + DSDP-DD + XML Editor + Subversive -- just naming the stuff that *I* usually get). You cannot ask people go to the project specific sites.
  • For adopters, it's just the same. Ganymede is the necessary one-stop-shop for an initial install. You don't need to care about future updates because once you've got the initial install, you'll get future updates from the built-in project-specific sites.
  • I don't see why I should maintain different feature.xml's? They're all the same for me, no problem here. And maintaining multiple site.xml's -- well it's done all automagically by the releng scripts so why should I care.
From my point of view, all the questions posted are moot and I'm
very much in favor of keeping the Ganymede site until we'll
(quite definitely) have a yet better initial installer based on P2.
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member

From: [] On Behalf Of Bjorn Freeman-Benson
Sent: Montag, 28. April 2008 19:40
To:; Cross project issues
Subject: [] Notes from a Heretic: Why do we havethe Ganymede update site?

Ganymede Project Leads,
Let me open a can of worms and publicly ask why we have the Ganymede Update Site.
It seems to me that:
  • For users, we have the Ganymede packages (
    • If we have packages, why have a separate update site?  The packages have all the update sites built in (via the feature.xmls).
    • And if someone wants to add new functionality to their existing Eclipse, they will go to the project specific update site and get the latest bits.
  • For adopters, we have the project downloads and update sites - why should we have a second update site for these?
    • In fact, having a second update site just makes things more complicated because then "where do I get future updates? do I get them from the central update site or from the project update site? and why are there so many similar update sites listed in my Eclipse?"
    • More complicated for project teams too, because then they have to maintain different site.xmls, feature.xmls, etc.
The original reason for the unified update site was because it was confusing for users to have to go here and go there and go the other place to put together a package. But now that we have packages, why do we need the unified update site? It seems to be extra hassle and complexity for everyone at no net benefit to anyone.

Comments? Opinions?
- Bjorn
[end of message]

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