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Re: [eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee] SOA Track
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+1
Cheers
Alexander
Von meinem iPhone gesendet
Am 01.08.2012 um 09:21 schrieb Jonas Helming <jhelming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> +1
>
> Am 31.07.2012 23:21, schrieb Campo, Christian:
>> Thanks for getting this sorted out before the telco tomorrow…..
>>
>> +1
>>
>> christian
>>
>> Am 31.07.12 19:54 schrieb "Martin Lippert" unter <lippert@xxxxxxx>:
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> -Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>> I like Achim's solution. We already have the tradition of a Modeling
>>>> Symposium, which we know the community likes. The Modeling people decide
>>>> what content to present in that 3.5 hour slot -- we schedule it and give
>>>> it a room. It's easy to do the same thing for the SOA community.
>>>>
>>>> We could add the SOA Symposium to the tutorial pre-registration system,
>>>> just like we do for the Modeling Symposium -- this gives it some
>>>> visibility and allows it to be in the right room (re capacity).
>>>>
>>>> Anne Jacko
>>>> Eclipse Foundation
>>>> 503-784-3788 (cell)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 31, 2012, at 9:08 AM, Achim Lörke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> after reading the opinions of the others who commented I think the
>>>>> opportunity for groups to gather community is important enough to
>>>>> allow special sessions. I personally like the idea of symposia
>>>>> (especially with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symposium in mind). So
>>>>> let's take the free rooms, give one to the SOA guys, and ask around if
>>>>> anyone else is up for a symposium.
>>>>>
>>>>> Achim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting "Campo, Christian" <Christian.Campo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:Christian.Campo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We could have morning BoFs yes. We have as I remember from Anne about
>>>>>> 3 additional small rooms during the Tutorial timeframe. (2
>>>>>> Seminarrooms and WKZ which is the small half round room at the end
>>>>>> above the entrance in the second floor)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However we have to make sure that we dont split the concurrent
>>>>>> sessions into too many pieces. 6 tutorials plus 3 BoFs so in total 9
>>>>>> tracks sounds like a lot too me. But we could do that. I think it is
>>>>>> a cool occassion for niche products or technologies. You dont want to
>>>>>> discuss JavaFX or E4 in the tutorial timeperiod because a lot of
>>>>>> people love to go to the tutorials and you dont want to loose those.
>>>>>> But it might work for topics with a small audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Ralf Mueller indicated he wants us to suggest something other than
>>>>>> an evening BoF to help the SOA people. Another option that Anne Jacko
>>>>>> suggested is what EF also sometimes does is allow community members
>>>>>> to have a closed session somewhere that is invitation only. Such a
>>>>>> session is not in the program and has the disadvantage that you need
>>>>>> to find the people to invite and its harder to get attendees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need the people how had concerns with the original SOA Track idea
>>>>>> (mainly Jonas and Achim maybe others who didnt raise their voice) to
>>>>>> come up with suggestions and ideas so we find a solution that works
>>>>>> for everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Christian Campo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----UrsprÃpngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>> Von: eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> <mailto:eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> [mailto:eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>> Im Auftrag von Martin Lippert
>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Juli 2012 18:12
>>>>>> An: Eclipsecon Program Committee list
>>>>>> Betreff: Re: [eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee] SOA Track
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had to think about this for a while, therefore my late reply.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about opening up the time slot of the tutorials for additional
>>>>>> BoF sessions (if we can arrange a few small rooms for them). Then we
>>>>>> could tell them to do a BoF in that room at that time, and we can
>>>>>> tell other people to signup for additional BoFs, if they want. And we
>>>>>> could maybe arrange an open and transparent online board for those
>>>>>> BoFs, so that people can see what BoFs are going to happen, when, and
>>>>>> where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would be kind of an "open space" slot for EclipseCon Europe, which I
>>>>>> would like. We would not sponsor those sessions with free passes or
>>>>>> something like that, just with a place to meet. Maybe that place
>>>>>> would not even have a beamer, but a flipchart instead, which would
>>>>>> underline the interactive character of those sessions (and avoid
>>>>>> standard talks to slip in there...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> -Martin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27.07.12 11:55, Campo, Christian wrote:
>>>>>>> So what I am "hear" up to now is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Some people object to the SOA track because it feels to them like
>>>>>>> cheating or breaking rules
>>>>>>> - The modelling symposium also breaks the same rules but with big
>>>>>>> success in the past and we should think twice before stopping them
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me rules should help us make a better conference program and
>>>>>>> should guarantee that we are not unfair to people (equal opportunies
>>>>>>> for everyone). If breaking rules create in OUR opinion (not just
>>>>>>> mine) a better program then lets break rules.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think its pretty hard for an outsider to create a community within
>>>>>>> Eclipse if he is not already using a hype topic. I remember in past
>>>>>>> years we had for example a OFMP symposium (Open Financial Market
>>>>>>> Platform) where the OFMP people sat together for a whole day to
>>>>>>> discuss the possibility of the OFMP project proposal. (also in one
>>>>>>> of the small rooms) I admit that OFMP is dead today but not because
>>>>>>> of the symposium :-) but because of other reasons.
>>>>>>> What I mean here is that we do these kind of exceptions sometimes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BoFs are easy for very popular topics (like JavaFX) but hard for
>>>>>>> others. I once did a Eclipse Riena BoF (with only 3 people attending
>>>>>>> (outside the Riena committer group)). Its really hard at night to
>>>>>>> get people attracted to an unknown project. We also usually say that
>>>>>>> there should be NO overhead projection during BoFs but people should
>>>>>>> rather talk. (its not forbidden but discouraged). That is also
>>>>>>> pretty hard for introducing a new group of projects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think our role as PC must be to help the SOA people to find as
>>>>>>> many people as possible who are willing to give them a chance to
>>>>>>> listen to their content. The proposed track is from a top-level
>>>>>>> project with multiple projects in the track (from multiple
>>>>>>> companies). And what is most important for me they are "the new kid
>>>>>>> on the block". Unlike for example RT which is around for some time
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alternatives:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think we could force them to do this SOA Night thing and even
>>>>>>> though it was my idea really I came to the conclusion that this will
>>>>>>> be "dead on arrival". They find too many people giving the time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another option is to tell them to break this into 4 submissions and
>>>>>>> then decide about each of them individually. Say 2 of them are
>>>>>>> accepted by us. That would already by optimistic given the fact that
>>>>>>> only a small group of people are interested in SOA. It will reduce
>>>>>>> the number of other talks that we can except. We give them speaker
>>>>>>> passes and so on. And we probably break the sessions apart into
>>>>>>> different rooms are different times. And we only have large rooms
>>>>>>> really in Ludwigsburg. Even if they find their maximum audience the
>>>>>>> room will be at least 1/2 empty if not 2/3 empty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The alternative is we do a SOA symposium where the projects of the
>>>>>>> SOA PMC now that it is restructured and new projects where added get
>>>>>>> a chance to present themselves to interested people. On a plus side
>>>>>>> we dont loose any speaker passes we still have 5 tutorial slots left
>>>>>>> and we can see what will happen. I currently dont see any other PMC
>>>>>>> in the same situation but if there is, lets hear them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW we can still include the discussion about this talk in the
>>>>>>> official telcos about the program that are starting next week. A
>>>>>>> little difference is that we can accept this submission without
>>>>>>> loosing other content. That is not true for the other tutorial slots
>>>>>>> because there are only 5 regular slots that we can give away. (And
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> dont want to do the modeling symposia in a room for 40 people :-) )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still I am interesting in discussion if you have some free cycles :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Christian Campo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----UrsprÃpngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>>> Von: eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> <mailto:eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> [mailto:eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>>>> Im Auftrag von Ralph Mueller
>>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 27. Juli 2012 00:12
>>>>>>> An: Eclipsecon Program Committee list
>>>>>>> Cc: Eclipsecon Program Committee list
>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: [eclipse.org-eclipsecon-program-committee] SOA Track
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's my point of view: Unfortunately, BoF's are the right thing to
>>>>>>> dp, but they don't work ... not sure why that is. I propose to try
>>>>>>> new ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS: Have not received any sponsoring money from any SOA corp :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Liebe GrÃpsse/Best Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ralph Mueller
>>>>>>> +49 177 449 0460
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 25.07.2012 um 23:03 schrieb Bernd Kolb <b.kolb@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> <mailto:b.kolb@xxxxxxxxxxx>>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sorry for interfering here. I just wanted to point out one thing:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think/fear that the number of attendees will be significantly
>>>>>>>> reduced if the modeling symposium (that's what it was called in the
>>>>>>>> beginning) will be hold as some kind of BoF in the evening. That
>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>> not mean that the current format should or could not be changed. It
>>>>>>>> is just something to keep in mind. I would as well distinguish
>>>>>>>> between Modeling and all the rest :-) For whatever reason people are
>>>>>>>> heavily attracted by all kind of modeling sessions at ECE and the
>>>>>>>> symposium is/was a format were people could get an update in a very
>>>>>>>> condensed form.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents,
>>>>>>>> Bernd
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2012/7/25 Simon Kaufmann <simon.kfm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> <mailto:simon.kfm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Indeed, the Modeling Symposium was crowded last year. I was also
>>>>>>>>> wondering that there are so many (really short) talks that were not
>>>>>>>>> submitted (or
>>>>>>>>> accepted?) in the regular program and apparently there is a
>>>>>>>>> significant audience for them. That leaves kind of a bad feeling.
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> the other hand, it is one of the best things that can happen - a
>>>>>>>>> community is gathering at EclipseCon and they organise themselves,
>>>>>>>>> exchanging some more or less cool stuff. And hopefully this is
>>>>>>>>> attracting more and more people who are working on those topics. So
>>>>>>>>> we somehow have to deal with it and facilitate this kind of
>>>>>>>>> community exchange. I don't think it hurts the spirit of the
>>>>>>>>> conference at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, from my point of view, that's exactly what the BoFs are
>>>>>>>>> meant for, right? Definetly, this format (be it modeling symposium
>>>>>>>>> or SOA track) is not what a tutorial is originally meant to be
>>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>> So I really like the fact that it's out of question to give SOA a
>>>>>>>>> precious official tutorial slot. And actually this also applies to
>>>>>>>>> modeling - I second Achim, it's cheating on the tutorial idea and
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the session selection process of the official program.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From looking at the PDF, my gut feeling would be that there hardly
>>>>>>>>> will be competition between the SOA track and neither the BoFs nor
>>>>>>>>> the tutorials.
>>>>>>>>> SOA/BPM is not exactly a hype topic anymore that everybody will
>>>>>>>>> attend to just because it is mainstream. Rather, it became a
>>>>>>>>> specialized topic and having the typical EclipseCon audience in
>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>> I would even consider 30 attendees ambitious. But I'd love to get
>>>>>>>>> surprised and proven wrong in this point. I really think they
>>>>>>>>> should get the chance to build up a community.
>>>>>>>>> Enterprises still love this topic and there is a significant market
>>>>>>>>> potential. Still, personally I prefer it to be a BoF.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would it be an option to have something like "promoted" or
>>>>>>>>> "preselected"
>>>>>>>>> BoFs, i.e. guarantee SOA ("rookie") and modeling ("famous") a BoF
>>>>>>>>> slot and do a little advertising for them in the program?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So my vote: -0.5 (to indicate it's not a strong opinion - as long
>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> they get a "spare" room).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Simon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2012/7/25 Achim Lörke <Achim.Loerke@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Achim.Loerke@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> like Jonas I don't like the idea of a special treatment for talks
>>>>>>>>>> disguised as tutorials. The Modeling symposium is there because of
>>>>>>>>>> its history but actually this is cheating on the talk selection
>>>>>>>>>> process, too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So my vote is -1.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Let's give them enough room for an extended BOF.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Achim
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Quoting "Campo, Christian" <Christian.Campo@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:Christian.Campo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Program Committee,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> here is a summary of some conversation that went on in the past
>>>>>>>>>>> week between some of the SOA PMC (Marc Gille) and me and Ralph
>>>>>>>>>>> and Anne.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If you look at the submission
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.eclipsecon.org/europe2012/sessions/soa-track-mutiple-se
>>>>>>>>>>> s sions it has only a small abstract but a pretty long PDF
>>>>>>>>>>> attached to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Its submitted as a tutorial but only because as a tutorial
>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>> that has the length that the SOA people like to have. They had
>>>>>>>>>>> some early conversation with Mike and Ralph that led to this
>>>>>>>>>>> submission.
>>>>>>>>>>> They also sent an email to Ralph and myself once the submission
>>>>>>>>>>> was in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given that we have a total of 13 tutorial submissions and 5 slots
>>>>>>>>>>> I saw little chance that this will get anywhere given that its
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> even a tutorial and tutorial are pretty popular. I asked Anne if
>>>>>>>>>>> there is small room somewhere that we could give them in parallel
>>>>>>>>>>> to the tutorials. We have the Seminarrooms (in the basement),
>>>>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>>>>> of them, which are not taken during the tutorials. I also suggest
>>>>>>>>>>> to them (as a alternative) to do a "SOA night" in parallel to
>>>>>>>>>>> the BoFs where they could have 3 or 4 hours in one of the rooms.
>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time I asked to estimate the number of people coming.
>>>>>>>>>>> Their goal is to get 30 people to call it a success which is not
>>>>>>>>>>> that much given the 600 attendee for the conference that we are
>>>>>>>>>>> aiming at (hopefully we get there).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> After these choices the SOA PMC decided that they would call off
>>>>>>>>>>> the tutorial and their favorite choice would be to have a small
>>>>>>>>>>> room in parallel to the tutorial. People who choose to the SOA
>>>>>>>>>>> track would not be able to attend the tutorials (they are aware
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> this). We would put the SOA sessions as regular submissions into
>>>>>>>>>>> the system (4 sessions) after the 31st of July and add a SOA
>>>>>>>>>>> track
>>>>>>>>>>> to the program. They don't get speaker passes for this SOA track
>>>>>>>>>>> and need to do some marketing to get people interested. Everyone
>>>>>>>>>>> can attend the SOA track (its not a closed session but open to
>>>>>>>>>>> everyone)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So here is an action item for everyone in the PC. Are we all ok
>>>>>>>>>>> with this ? Anyone fears that it would distract people from the
>>>>>>>>>>> tutorials ? Anyone feels that we shouldn't have this kind of
>>>>>>>>>>> special content ? Strong feeling pro or con ? Questions ?
>>>>>>>>>>> Anything clear ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Please vote +1 and -1 (and 0 if you must :) ). Raise concerns.
>>>>>>>>>>> Now
>>>>>>>>>>> is a good time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> Christian Campo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> compeople AG
>>>>>>>>>>> Untermainanlage 8
>>>>>>>>>>> 60329 Frankfurt/Main
>>>>>>>>>>> fon: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 0
>>>>>>>>>>> fax: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 22
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>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.compeople.de><http://www.compeople.de/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> Mauernstr. 33
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>> ram-committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>> am-committee
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> fon: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 0
>>>>>>> fax: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 22
>>>>>>> web: http://www.compeople.de/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vorstand: JÃprgen Wiesmaier
>>>>>>> Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Christian Glanz
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Untermainanlage 8
>>>>>> 60329 Frankfurt/Main
>>>>>> fon: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 0
>>>>>> fax: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 22
>>>>>> web: http://www.compeople.de/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vorstand: JÃprgen Wiesmaier
>>>>>> Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Christian Glanz
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Frankfurt/Main
>>>>>> Handelsregister Frankfurt HRB 56759
>>>>>> USt-IdNr. DE207665352
>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
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>> fax: +49 (0) 69 / 27 22 18 22
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>>
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>
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>
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