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Where is Eclipse headed? I'd bet that's harder to answer than
you think, and I'm not sure there's any one individual who would know, except
for maybe Mike. So while you may think there's no community for Cobol IDEs, if
you dig deeper you may find there's actually 1000 users of the thing who all
want to go to EclipseCon to learn more (but I doubt it in this case
:).
And it goes the other way too. On the embedded side, we know
that the CDT and DSDP have vibrant communities. Unfortunately, they see
EclipseCon as an Enterprise IT show. Why? Well, we've had a hard time getting
good submissions. People want to talk about their projects but there are only so
many of those types of talks to go around and not enough of them to make it
worth attendee's spending the week and travel budget to attend. So I know what I
want EclipseCon to be, but without support of the community, it's hard to make
happen. And, to be honest, even if I did get a dozen awesome submissions, it
would be an interesting battle to see which of the Enterprise IT groups would be
willing to give up slots.
Not to start an Enterprise vs. Embedded war, but they are
different audiences, at least for now (and looking at what Google's doing, that
will change). And as I think we are starting to agree, we need to build
EclipseCon to attract as much of an audience as we can, which hopefully is
broad.
Interestingly enough, I find ESE has a much higher embedded
attendance percentage than EclipseCon. How does that happen? Culture?
Demographics? Awesome recruiting by Ralph?
Doug S.
Kevin,
I agree with your concerns and I completely agree
with Bjorn's comment. It just seems poisonous, as you suggest, to pick
on specific projects to winnow down their allocation. I would observe
generally that top level projects seem to get a good allocation by virtue of
being a top level project. That likely needs to be scrutinized more
closely. I don't think the current allocation represents
where Eclipse is now nor where Eclipse is headed as closely as it ought
to...
Kevin McGuire wrote:
> they have no significant community and aren't even producing
quality usable results upon which to build a community and hence they are
over allocated.
> They get their large
allocation by virtue of being a top level project, I think.
Yes this was kind of my issue as well.
I just didn't feel the allocations matched well where the community was.
Mind you, I would be ok with them matching where we think the
community is going since the conference should be forward looking.
Clearly the E4 category is with that in mind, but does it explain the
other allocations?
If the
allocations don't match where the real activity is, then its unlikely we can
get quality content to fill them, since the people, work, energy,
innovation, etc. just aren't there to produce the material. Finally,
there is a real concern that such a failure sends a bad signal on what
Eclipse is (both in focus and quality).
I don't want to point to any projects in particular since
that has potential to degenerate into a "who likes who best" kind of
negative spiral. I mean really, I love you all! (Just not equally
<g>). Thus the default it seems is we proceed as is, since
that's the least controversial.
But really, do people honestly feel these allocations
represent what Eclipse is about? What we want people to take away,
think about? Others on this list have a more global view then I.
If people say, "Yes they do match" then my concern will go
away.
Kevin
Bjorn,
I think some areas, to pick on TPTP for example, are
just not interesting, i.e., they have no significant community and aren't
even producing quality usable results upon which to build a community and
hence they are over allocated. They get their large allocation by
virtue of being a top level project, I think. Picking on these things
seems kind of negative, and perhaps futile. :-P The question will
indeed be what do "we" want to emphasize and I expect different folks to
differ wildly on that...
I do of course see your point
though!
I hope you had a great ride!!
Bjorn Freeman-Benson
wrote:
Ed,
Wrong answer :-)
Ed Merks
wrote:
I suppose that for any of these things, if
the slots are really over allocated, that will become clear by the number of
quality submissions; unused slots will be obviously redistributed...
Jeff said it best last year, but in essence: the
distribution of slots is based what we want the conference to be, not what
the set of submissions happens to be. I.e., just because lots of people want
to talk about IDEs for COBOL doesn't mean that we want to have lots of talks
about COBOL, n'est pas? If the submission quality is low in an area we want
to emphasize, we have to step out and recruit good talks for that
area.
- Bjorn
--
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