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RE: [] Minutes from today's call

Actually, I didn't know e4 was on the agenda either. :-) I was in another
meeting and only joined the AC call because Ed ping'ed me to tell me people
were talking about it.


             "Schaefer, Doug"                                              
   >                                               To 
             Sent by:                  ""  
             ounces@xxxxxxxxxx                                          cc 
             03/13/08 15:01            []  
                                       Minutes from today's call           
             Please respond to                                             

I'm certainly not blaming anyone but myself for missing the meeting. The
culture we have in the CDT is "I want feature X" and we say "great, where's
the patch". I want to be reminded about the meetings and I'm sure I can
patch outlook myself to do that.

At either rate, I'm just sad I missed the meeting. I didn't realize e4 was
on the agenda. Rather than polling the arch council site for agenda
updates, it would be nice to know before hand. For example, if you have a
big topic to talk about, let us know on the list so we can prepare before
the meeting. Which also sounds like a good process for architecture changes
at Eclipse ;).


From: [] On Behalf Of
Bjorn Freeman-Benson
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [] Minutes from today's call

More about my comment in the minutes about "meeting reminders"... I
actually think this is in an important point. Specifically, the
Architecture Council (and other bodies) have been ineffective in the past
because we (collectively) have taken a passive approach: "I'll wait for
someone to invite me, I'll comment on a proposal, but I won't be actively
involved". We, the leaders of Eclipse, need to encourage an active approach
and that means we also need to take an active approach. We want the larger
Eclipse community to think "I want feature X in the Platform, that means
that *I* need to provide feature X". We suffer too much from "I want
feature X, so I'll tell McQ that I want feature X and then I'll whine when
it doesn't show up"... That's just not going to work anymore (not that it
really did in the past).  We, Eclipse, need a greater, active, code
writing, involvement in e4. Thus, we, the AC need to promote a greater,
active, involvement. Thus, we, the AC, cannot sit around and say "nobody
reminded me of this meeting" - the dates have all been published in
advance. If you/we need more than that, someone needs to step up and take
responsibility for that - waiting around for "someone else to do it" is
symptomatic of a the larger problem.

Now, what we, the AC, can do is to help projects understand the roadblocks
they are putting up against such greater involvement. Is there an
architectural issue that is making more activity difficult? Is there a
process issue? Is there a perception issue? ... That's where I think the AC
can take an active role in encouraging more active participation by the
larger community. Not just "lists of requested features", but actual code.

Anyway, that's my rant for the day...
- Bjorn
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