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Re: [eclipse-pmc] [jdt-dev] Move JDT to Java 11

Dear All,
  Thanks to all those who weighed-in - the details are in bug [2]. Andrey and I also had an offline discussion, again the details have been captured in the bug.
Gist: Agreement is to move to 11 in 4.21 itself.
Initially, I was thinking about keeping ecj sacrosanct with 1.8, as Stephan mentioned in comment 4, but that would mean further pressure for our already time-constrained team and also would have been only be a stop gap arrangement until the  the restriction of not using the latest features partially would mean another move. 
----- Original message -----
From: "Manoj Palat" <manoj.palat@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: "jdt-dev" <jdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: jdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: jdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx, eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx, cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx, eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [jdt-dev] Move JDT to Java 11
Date: Thu, Jun 17, 2021 8:15 AM
Hi Alexander, Andrey, all,
Thanks for the mail chain.  As a JDT lead and also taking into consideration the long legacy of Eclipse, my take as mentioned in [2] comment 11 is reproduced below verbatim:
"I would prefer an early mail being sent across to various mailing lists (in the hope of *everyone* will see this) much before.
Traditionally, ecj was always behind the current release - and now in the 6 month release cadence, I would consider only LTS as  the major release. Given that the LTS is 11 at this point, I think it is fine as long as ecj continues to be on the previous LTS version which is 8 prior to the current LTS (11) unless there is a pressing need.

If we agree to this, then we can think of moving ecj to 11 when the next LTS version is supported by ecj source, ie after Java 17 support is into ecj. 4.21 (Sep 2021) will have Java 17 support as a patch build only, so we are looking at 4.22 ie the December 2021 release for the ecj upgrade to Java 11 - ie, if there is a consensus to upgrade to Java 11"
Now since Andrey has brought up this issue, let  me re-iterate my stand here albeit with a modification. If it feels that there is a pressing need to move to 11 in 4.21, let us announce it in the cross-project/eclipse general mailing lists which Andrey has already gone ahead. And then lets wait for a few days (a week?) in M1 time frame.
However, I would like to make sure that this is a repeatable process and we stick to a particular mode.
In this case, the mode will be "let us move to the last stable release just before the BETA support for the next stable version is expected" instead of "let us move to the last stable release along with the BETA support of the next stable version".
If we announce this also, then the customers are not taken by surprise for the move and they can always plan for the same.
For those TL;DR, Here is the gist:
Option 1: Move to Prev Stable (11) when Next Stable(17) is supported => 4.22
Option 2: Move to Prev Stable(11) just before Next Stable(17) is supported => 4.21
My preference would be option 1 still, given that the expectation is set always in sync with the next stable version, more logically. However, am open for the 2 as well, but with weighted preferences for those in the JDT.Core team who finally ends up supporting this.
PS: sorry if you ended up getting multiple copies.
----- Original message -----
From: Andrey Loskutov <loskutov@xxxxxx>
Sent by: "jdt-dev" <jdt-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: pmc <eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>, jdt dev <jdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, eclipse-dev <eclipse-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Cross-Project <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [jdt-dev] Move JDT to Java 11
Date: Wed, Jun 16, 2021 7:01 PM
Hi all,

sorry for cross-posting, but I would like to take your attention to JDT specific topic that may affect some downstream JDT consumers.

*** Request to move JDT to Java 11 ***

1) I request that JDT stops supporting compilation of JDT code on Java 8 and execution of JDT code on Java 8, for the 4.21 release, and switches to compile JDT project code against Java 11 libraries.
2) If this request would be agreed / approved, I would like to add an item to the 4.21 release plan [1] that Eclipse Compiler for Java (ecj) can only be used on Java 11+ runtime environment.

*** Reason for this request ***

JDT team is a very small team, overloaded since a very long time with support of various Java releases in compiler.
This team can't afford to support running ecj on Java 8 AND on Java 11 AND on Java 16 AND on Java 17+ etc.
The code complexity and the issues we see in JDT are overwhelming and constantly growing.
With every Java release more and more features need to be added to the code base, and the maintenance burden is becoming bigger, not smaller!

To simplify maintainers life and save time for proper Eclipse Java compiler support we should declare end of "run on Java 8" support in JDT code.
To be honest: since we are not testing ecj on Java 8 since long time, no one can guarantee that any recent ecj version can run on Java 8 anyway.

*** Important note ***

This request doesn't mean JDT would not support compilation of programs with Java 8 target!  
We still support compilation targets from Java 1.3 to the latest Java release.

This request is only about JDT own project code that will be compiled with Java 11 target. Moving JDT to Java 11 would also open a door for possible contributions that could use API's only available since Java 9+, but that's not the main driver here.

Please note, that Eclipse platform (IDE/RCP) as a whole does not support compilation/execution on Java 8 since 4.17 release (2020-09) and we do not run any tests on Java 8 that would guarantee Java 8 compliance.

There is a discussion on bug 572389 [2], which is not a new one. Most of the Platform projects are already moved to compile against Java 11, only some parts of JDT related to the standalone compiler are still (theoretically) compatible to Java 8, the IDE part of JDT has dependencies to libraries / bundles that only support Java 11+.

*** What downstream consumers could do after move ***

If JDT code base is moved to Java 11, downstream consumers can do following:

1) Use previously released JDT / ecj versions.
2) Run the build/application using JDT on Java 11+.
3) Clone JDT code and build / maintain own fork, compatible to Java 8.
4) Contribute to JDT.

*** Action item for PMC / JDT team ***

Please, can we make a decision & have an agreement to drop "run on Java 8" support for 4.21, and move JDT code to Java 11?
*If* not 4.21, can we please make a decision & have an agreement to drop "run on Java 8" support in JDT for some *concrete* platform version?


Before someone would write an answer asking JDT project to continue "run on Java 8" support - please provide a *concrete* proposal, how *you* or your organisation could contribute to JDT, because nobody else is there that would have time to do that.


Kind regards,
Andrey Loskutov

Спасение утопающих - дело рук самих утопающих

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