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Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list
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Good point. In the first instance I think it makes sense for the PMC to look at removal and only put forward things that "make sense". This limits churn in the community. Then effectively we give "approval in concept". The intent to remove is broadcast and when it comes time to remove for a release, we review the feedback and give the final go/no-go.
Make sense?
Jeff
On 2010-04-22, at 11:04 AM, Daniel Megert wrote:
> The question to me is whether the person who wants to delete an API should
> first ask the community for feedback and then come to the PMC. With this,
> the PMC has more data to make the final call.
> Other than that I also like to collect it all in one place.
>
> Dani
>
> |------------>
> | From: |
> |------------>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |Jeff McAffer <jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> |
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> |------------>
> | To: |
> |------------>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx |
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> |------------>
> | Date: |
> |------------>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |22.04.2010 16:50 |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |------------>
> | Subject: |
> |------------>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list |
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
>
> I like this approach. Having the entire conversation in one place is a real
> bonus IMHO.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-04-22, at 9:04 AM, Thomas Watson wrote:
>
>
>
> I suggest keeping the bug open until the API is deleted. The title of
> the bug should be obvious: "Proposal for removing deprecated API
> XXX". With that title it seems reasonable to keep it open until the
> API is either deleted or closed as wontfix. The porting guide should
> reference the bug report.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> <graycol.gif>"Oberhuber, Martin" ---04/22/2010 12:36:43 AM---Sounds
> good to me - one question remains open though:
>
> <ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
> From: "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> <ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
> To: <eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> <ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
> Date: 04/22/2010 12:36 AM
>
> <ecblank.gif> <ecblank.gif>
> Subject: RE: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds good to me - one question remains open though:
>
> What is the public feedback channel for clients to disagree with the
> deletion AFTER it has been put into the porting guide? There's
> 1-2 years during which we should be open for discussion.
>
> Shall we keep the same bug? If yes, should the bug state be
> kept open until the API is actually deleted or should the bug
> just talk about announcing the deletion (and close when
> announced)?
>
> Or should a different channel be used after announced (eg
> mailing list, newsgroup... but there's a risk of losing bug
> history when doing that).
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
> direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6
>
>
> From: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [
> mailto:eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Arthorne
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 4:07 AM
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list
>
>
> Ok, sounds good to me. So the process would be:
>
> 1) Enter a bug report describing the proposed removal and rationale
> 2) Send request to eclipse-pmc mailing list, quoting bug reference
> 3) We discuss and come to agreement on a PMC weekly call, and mark
> pmc_approved+ on the bug if approved
> 4) Wider announcement of deletion on relevant mailing lists,
> including link to bug for community comment (cross-project-issues-dev
> and eclipse-dev)
> 5) Assuming no community disagreement, update deprecation comment,
> add entry in porting guide
>
> How does that sound?
>
> John
>
>
>
> Jeff McAffer <
> jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by:
> eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx To
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> cc
> 04/21/2010 06:30 PM <ecblank.gif>
> Subject
> Re: [eclipse-pmc] Pending
> API deletions list
> Please respond to
> eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> <ecblank.gif>
> <ecblank.gif>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Use Bugzilla. It is open, visible, supports community input and has a
> voting/approval mechanism.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On 2010-04-21, at 3:14 PM, Oberhuber, Martin wrote:
>
> Definitely we should use a bug for tracking each deletion.
>
> Note that the deprecation policy says that after the intent for API
> deletion has been
> announced, clients / consumers can argue against the deletion. So
> we'll need a
> channel for this, and it will be useful to be able and have the
> "client channel"
> reference the original discussion that led to proposing a
> deprecation.
>
> Actually, agreeing on what the client channel should be and how to
> announce
> it is a prerequisite for your item (3) wider announcement.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River
> direct +43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6
>
>
> From: eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [
> mailto:eclipse-pmc-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Arthorne
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 8:52 PM
> To: eclipse-pmc@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [eclipse-pmc] Pending API deletions list
>
>
> I haven't had a chance to bring this up in a recent PMC call, but I
> added a section to the platform porting guide for "upcoming"
> deletions according to our API deprecation policy. Please take a look
> at it in and let me know if you think of any needed changes
> (available in this week's I-builds). I added two entries partly as an
> exercise at writing what I think entries should look like as an
> example for others. We can discuss those two specific deletions at an
> upcoming call.
>
> The next question is what the process should be for developers who
> want to add entries to this list. My opening proposal is that we
> should have quorum agreement on deletions within the PMC because it
> is quite a significant change (rather than +1 from any single PMC
> member). So, I suggest a process such as:
>
> 1) Developers send request to eclipse-pmc mailing list
> 2) We discuss and come to agreement on a PMC weekly call
> 3) Wider announcement of deletion (update deprecation comment, entry
> in porting guide, announce on wider mailing lists)
>
> How does that sound? Should we also require a bug report to track the
> change?
>
> John
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