RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connectionmanagement (

[brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx]

No arguments here. If we can't make
it easier for everybody, there's no point in doing it. 

That's why I definitely think we should
find our common set of requirements and see how this plays out on paper
long before we start writing much code. :)

--Fitz

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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08/22/2008 08:40 AM

Please respond to
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To	"E4 developer list" <eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc	David Dykstal <david_dykstal@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject	RE: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic        connectionmanagement        (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)

Thanks Brian!
 
There's just one point I'd like
to make very clear from the beginning:
 
For me, the main motivation for
going towards connection management
unification, is striving for improved
usability and unified user experience.
 
In case we'd find that unifying
the architectures to a point where it 
actually becomes harder for users
to handle there use-cases, it 
would be a failure.
 
But I'm looking forward to seeing
your dog & pony :-)
 
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior
Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River
Target Management Project Lead,
DSDP PMC Member
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm

---

From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:12 PM
To: E4 developer list
Cc: David Dykstal
Subject: Re: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connectionmanagement
(was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)


Hi Martin! 

Yes, I'll be happy to host a dog & pony show to share everybody's wares.
:) 

Let me see what I can pull together early next week as far as demo'able
materials and screen sharing (we can probably use my Microsoft Live Meeting
account so long as we're not talking too many folks, maybe < 20?) and
then we can discuss dates/times that might work for everyone... 

I look forward to the discussion. I'm sure we can come up with something
that works across the board if we put our heads together and re-use a bunch
of stuff where it makes sense. 

Thanks! 
--Fitz 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc.

"Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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08/22/2008 04:32 AM

Please respond to
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To	"E4 developer list" <eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Scott Lewis" <slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "David Dykstal" <david_dykstal@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Gaff, Doug" <doug.gaff@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject	[eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] E4 towards generic connection management        (was: e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...)

Hi Brian, 
  
this sounds like a great idea. I'm CC'ing Dave Dykstal (DSDP-TM / RSE)
and Scott 
Lewis (ECF) here to broaden the discussion, as well as Doug Gaff from the
DSDP PMC. For background, see 
http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/Connection_Frameworks
  
I think it would make sense if we prepare a conference / demo session to
understand what we all have. You could showcase what DTP has, and I'd
also be interested to see Sybase vendor-specific extensions of the DTP
framework used for other kinds of connectivity. Others could probably also
kick in and make some demo of their stuff. 
  
If that sounds good to you, could you propose a meeting time and
Screen Sharing facility? I could offer using Wind River's Webex
account but haven't used it myself so far so I'm not sure how well
it would work for a shared demo session. 
  
In order to also add the technical aspect of DSDP-TM, we do have
a lot of re-usable widgets, wizards and views for generic kinds of
connections and the resources below them. But our code pre-dates
the Common Navigator, so we don't have a CN integration yet.
And, the kinds of connections that we've been managing are biased
towards TCP/IP so they are not quite as generic as they could be.
We do, however, have a concept of system types with pluggable 
subsystem kinds which proved quite usable so far. 
  
I fully agree that in a world where the "Network" is becoming
more 
important than the local client, a generic approach for the user to
manage connections of all kinds will simplify user experience
(and help reducing code duplication and bloat). 
  
Cheers, 
-- 
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind
River 
Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member 
http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm

---

From: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-incubator-e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of brian.fitzpatrick@xxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 7:49 PM
To: eclipse-incubator-e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [eclipse-incubator-e4-dev] e4 beyond the ongoing UI conversations...


Hi all... 

Though I appreciate all the great discussion going on around e4 and the
UI work being done (though most of it is beyond me, not being an HTML/CSS
guy, I do find it fascinating), I was wondering if there is room in e4
to focus on other parts of the Eclipse ecosystem as well.

One of the issues IMHO across some of the major Eclipse projects is the
issue of cross-project integration. This is especially evident (to me anyway)
in terms of connection frameworks. 

The Eclipse ecosystem has many different types of "connection"
frameworks. The CVS (Eclipse Platform), Remote Systems Explorer (DSDP-TM),
Web (WTP), Communications (ECF), and Database Development (DTP) perspectives
all have their own server/system connection management user interfaces
and connection frameworks. WTP has been working with DTP to handle management
of database connections, which is great, but it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Within e4, we have a chance to settle on a common framework for connection
management and its associated UI. This would not only help out the user
with a common look and feel across the Eclipse ecosystem for connecting
to various systems, but it would allow adopters and extenders to take advantage
of this common framework so they too would fit into the Eclipse-iverse
more seamlessly to their own users. 

The connection framework within DTP, though used primarily for JDBC database
connections at this point, has been used with great success in many other
ways by Sybase products to connect to file systems, application servers,
UDDI and LDAP repositories, and so on. I think it has great potential to
fill the need for a common connection framework in e4.

However, integrating will the other projects in Eclipse will be tricky
at best and require a great deal of collaboration from many interested
parties. 

Do others see this as a problem that could be addressed within the e4 timeframe?
Or am I way out of scope with this suggestion? 

Thanks 
--Fitz (aka Brian Fitzpatrick) 

Brian Fitzpatrick
Eclipse Data Tools Platform PMC Chair
Eclipse Data Tools Platform Connectivity Team Lead
Staff Software Engineer, Sybase, Inc._______________________________________________
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