+1 for
"Eclipse Tooling Platform 4.0" - that's what it is.
The
Tooling Platform on which we hope to build Indigo / Isaac next year. A new
generation of tooling platform.
And
not necessarily that "Java IDE" that users still intuitively associate with the
Eclipse Classic SDK.
Thanks,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
direct
+43.662.457915.85 fax +43.662.457915.6
This is a platform -
its primary business is not end user features but frameworks and
infrastructure for others to build cool new products
upon
I realize the
distinction between "Eclipse Project" and "Eclipse Foundation" is lost on most
of the user community
These two statements essentially capture the problem. On the one hand we
talk lazily about "Eclipse 4.0" and mean the platform that, oh, happens to be
useful in and of itself (i.e., can be seen as a product). On the other the
community does not really grok the finer points of Eclipse community structure.
So does not necessarily perceive that there would be a difference. Some
500,000+ people have found Eclipse Classic 3.5 interesting enough to download...
Whether we want it to be a product or not, many people think it is one.
So if what we are releasing is the platform and not a product then perhaps
we should position it as such.
Eclipse Tooling
Platform 4.0
Presumably we would also have
Eclipse Rich
Client Platform 4.0
This does not address Brian's big bang theory but perhaps we'll never
capture that with 4.* but rather with Indigo or Isaac. The big impact this year
will be for people building on the platform.
Jeff
On 2010-04-29, at 4:43 PM, John Arthorne wrote:
I have a hard time
with the "not exciting enough for end users to call it 4.0" argument. This is
a platform - its primary business is not end user features but frameworks and
infrastructure for others to build cool new products upon. The platform
changes coming this summer are about the biggest you can ever expect to see
coming into the platform at this point in its maturity curve. It includes a
substantial rewrite of the UI and a completely new visual presentation that
has been in the works for over two years. It includes EMF and a CSS-based
widget rendering engine bundled into the RCP platform. If this isn't big
enough to call it 4.0, then I suspect we'll be staying on 3.x release numbers
forever. I expect the level of change between the 2010 and 2011 releases to be
substantially smaller so calling next year's release 4.0 would make even less
sense (since it will only contain one year's work rather than two or more that
went into this year's release). I agree with Brian that the "thunderous
release" will come in 2011 once a wider set of projects have adopted the
technology and we have a simultaneous release based on it. However, that
release will be an aggregate of many projects, and in Eclipse we attach
version numbers to individual projects rather than the simultaneous release as
a whole.
To Brian, it may be a
subtle distinction but we are not talking about "Eclipse 4.0". Eclipse is made
up of 50+ projects, of which the platform is only one. So, "Eclipse 4.0" makes
as much sense as "Apache 4.0", and calling it that will surely disappoint the
80%+ of end users who download something other than the "Eclipse Classic"
download that our single project produces. I realize the distinction between
"Eclipse Project" and "Eclipse Foundation" is lost on most of the user
community but I'm not sure what we can do about that.
John
I tend to agree with Brian:
To end users, the visible benefits
of the 4.0 release that we have
in mind right now, are not really
sufficient to call it 4.0.
I'm not sure whether it's too late already
to pull the brakes
of our marketing machinery. But in my mind, what we're
having
this year is really
1.) An "e4 1.0" release, providing a new
and exciting base for
RCP's, which is at an 1.0 maturity
level.
2.) An "Eclipse SDK 3.6 Newbase" that is Eclipse 3.6 on top of
the new base, providing same functionality as 3.6
with
improved visual appearance but also reduced
performance
and lack of 3rd party / addon
integration.
Native English speaking marketing champions should replace
"Newbase"
with a suitable qualifier that implies predicates such as "new,
revamped, reloaded, cool, developer, exciting, ..."
This message
also explains why "3.6" and "3.6 Newbase" are
released just 1 month after
each other. In the end, no matter
what we call it, it is what it
is...
Thanks,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
direct +43.662.457915.85 fax
+43.662.457915.6
-----Original Message-----
From: eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eclipse-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Brian de Alwis
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 10:54 PM
To:
General development mailing list of the Eclipse project.
Subject: Re:
[eclipse-dev] Re: [e4-dev] Eclipse Project 4.0 Release
On 28-Apr-2010,
at 1:59 PM, Mike Wilson wrote:
> Let's be absolutely clear about this:
It is *not* a "preview" nor is
it a "beta". This is a real release, which
should satisfy the needs of
anyone who was previously running Eclipse
"classic".
I'm confused. To me, that implies that this release
will be *the* 4.0
SDK, and that the July 2011 release train be shipping
with 4.0.1 or
something later. If so, then see my comments below.
If this isn't
going to be *the* 4.0 SDK, or rather if the real 4.0
will be released
later, then I think this *should* be marked as a
preview.
On 28-Apr-2010, at 2:18 PM, Jeff McAffer wrote:
> I'm
not sure I understand the problems with "beta". [...]
Me neither.
The Microsoft's Windows 7 beta was very popularly received.
Apple
seeds several rounds of iPhoneOS betas to its developers.
It
means that developers release their apps simultaneously, and it
becomes
a bigger deal. Look at how Apple is handling iPhoneOS 4.0 -
they're
releasing betas now so that developers can be 4.0 ready and show
off the
new whizzy features.
My $0.02: I think we should be
maximizing the opportunity of "Eclipse
4.0". It shouldn't be used for
a developers-only please-test-your-tools
release. e4 is very cool,
especially for RCP apps; SFS looks nifty too.
But let's be honest, most of
the other components in Eclipse 4.0 will be
the same in Helios.
To
my mind, "Eclipse 4.0" should be a thunderous release with tons
of
improvements, and should be revealed in July 2011. The other
projects
will have digested the new release and will demonstrate the
stunning
features of Eclipse 4.0. "4.0" should merit a big
ecosystem-wide party.
We should be looking to release e4 1.0. The
messaging should be: plugin
developers, move onto e4 R1.0 as this will be
the foundation of the
Eclipse 4.0 SDK. If "e4 R1.0" isn't good
enough, then this release
should definitely be "Eclipse 4.0 Preview" or
"Early
Adopters".
Brian._______________________________________________
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