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Re: [ecf-dev] Presence API review

Hi Remy/all,

Remy Suen wrote:
Hi everyone,

Note: This is long, very, very long. I'm sure you can tell by the size
of your scrollbar.

Per Scott's email a few days ago, ECF's direction is temporarily
shifting to the presence UI department to provide a better IM/chatting
experience. This is a noble cause which I hope will fix up some of the
annoyances and missing features that has been preventing me (and I
presume others) from using the ECF buddy list (the most frustrating
one is probably where your accounts are disconnected when you
close/dispose the ViewPart).

Yes. In order to move this forward, I've created a new plugin: org.eclipse.ecf.presence.ui. This plugin is currently empty, but will soon hold a brand new RosterView (or something of similar names). I think it would be better to start a new view class in this new plugin for the RosterView and reuse code from the current RosterView class, from Hyperbola, from GOIM (perhaps) and other, new ideas.

<stuff deleted>

For this review, I started by looking at the presence API's main entry
point at the top with
org.eclipse.ecf.presence.IPresenceContainerAdapter and then began
branching off from there.

An IPCA can add/remove IRosterSubscribeListeners. So first of all,
what is an IRSL? In short, it is watching requests for adding/removing
users. The context of 'subscription' here is that you add someone to
your buddy list, you're now subscribed to that person, that being, you
care when that person comes online, changes statuses, and so forth. I
think this interface needs a better name, but since I can't think of a
better one, I'll leave it to the reader to suggest one.

My best alternative suggestion at this moment is 'add/removeRosterSubscriptionListener' (and associated interface name IRosterSubscriptionListener...for roster subscription events).

What I do suggest for IRSL is the removal of the IPresence parameter
in all of its methods. An IPresence's Type inner class can be queried
to see what kind of information it is. But the IRSL methods already
indicate what's happening (handleSubscribed, handleUnsubscribed), so I
don't feel that the IPresence parameter is necessary here. Perhaps a
String can be added as a parameter for the handleSubscribe method
since some protocols (like ICQ) allows a user to put in a message when
requesting authorization from someone.

Good point.   I think these presence parameters can be safely removed.

Unsubscription is an interesting scenario and should be considered for
removal because when you delete someone from your buddy list, you just
expect them to go poof off of your buddy list. We've all deleted
someone before and I'm sure it's happened to all of us before too, it
just happens. People don't ask someone if they can delete the other
party, you just do it from the UI and that's it. Perhaps
handleUnsubscribed can be kept with different parameters to indicate
that the buddy has been removed (so the UI can be updated to remove
that entry), but handleUnsubscribeRequest seems ludicrous.

Yah, handleUnsubscribeRequest can also safely be removed.

For IPresence itself, maybe its Mode inner class's static
EXTENDED_AWAY and CHAT Modes can be removed, they don't really seem
very useful to me personally (isn't "extended away" really the same as
"away", and what is a "chat" presence?).
Here's the xmpp reference:

I'd appreciate it if someone
could explain to me as to what getPriority() is supposed to do as
someone's presence can be tied into a numeric scaling value.

Here's the XMPP reference for 'priority':

Doesn't really explain it, but there it is anyway. I'm not trying to justify the xmpp decisions here. I think that some of them are sort of weird.

Going back to an IPCA, you can attach IPresenceListeners to it. I
don't really have any issues with this listener interface except maybe
that the handleConnected(ID) and handleDisconnected(ID) methods should
be removed since the originating IContainer should have these covered?

Possibly. You are right that these are 'convenience' notifications (i.e. handleConnected/handleDisconnected).
I understand that an IContainer could technically not necessarily "be
itself", but since I believe you're not supposed to be calling
connect(ID, IConnectContext) multiple times (for multiple accounts) to
return different instances of IPCAs, I'm not sure if this argument is

The last listener you can hook onto an IPCA is an IMessageListener. An
IMessageListener is pretty straightforward with a simple
handleMessage(ID fromID, ID toID, Type type, String subject, String
messageBody) method. I think the subject parameter can probably be
removed. I've never heard of "subjects" for a message before, but
maybe that's something new in the IM/chatting industry?

It's just from email...i.e. to:, from:, subject:, body:.

Here's the xmpp spec WRT subject:

I'm thinking one way to handle this would be to add to the IMessageSender interface a method that is something like this

public void sendMessage(IMessage message);

And then providing a number of constructors (or perhaps a factory) for creating messages with different initialization params...i.e. so that rarely used parameters like 'subject' are not in ones face.

Also, this could also help support different text message types (e.g. xhtml) fairly easily (extensions).

The Type inner
class can probably have its GROUP_CHAT field removed (same thing as
CHAT, no, or am I missing something here?).

CHAT isn't the same as group refers to 1-1 IM chat messages, GROUP_CHAT is the n-way group chatting in XMPP.

I don't know what HEADLINE
is but maybe it can be renamed to SYSTEM or something more meaningful
(or removed outright if useless)?

We could change the name to something other than HEADLINE easily enough. That's just borrowed from xmpp...sort of weird, I agree.

Now we move on to interfaces we can query from the IPCA via getter
methods. For an IMessageSender, the fromID parameter is pretty much
useless since it's always going to be you. The 'subject' parameter
should be dropped based on what's been said above. I'm not sure if
Type is all that useful either because it's really always going to be
a NORMAL message (you're not going to be naughty and send ERROR
messages to people, right?).

I would suggest that we move toward the creation of an IMessage instance that supports the allowed/required/default set of parameters for a given IM protocol.

For an IPresenceSender, its name and actual methods don't really align
(well, except for sendPresenceUpdate). But first, looking at
sendPresenceUpdate to change your status (IPresence), I don't think it
should be asking for a fromID and a toID.  It's always going to be from
yourself and it should always be to everyone that is subscribed to
you, this is trivial and should be handled on the backend. I do not
want to have to iterate over a Set of my friends to send each of them
a status update, that is ridiculous and code I don't want to have to

The fromID can go, but the toID probably has to remain as per Erkki's comments (inserted here):

If the protocols support that, the toID should remain. Actually, I
expect that feature to be there, but I haven't actually tried with any
protocols whether this really gets sent to only toID or everyone.

There could be two different methods: sendPresenceUpdate(toID, presence)
sendPresenceUpdate(presence) or something along those lines (maybe
making the method names more explicit).

Thats what I think, anyhow.

Another use case for this could be Mylar and/or Corona integration. It
could show the task you are working on as your presence and you would
want only your team members to see that.

Back to Remy's notes...

Adding and removing people should be something that's handled
by the account (IAccountManager maybe?) and does not fit in with the
IPresenceSender name. Either way, both roster methods should remove
its fromID parameter (reasoning as above), and maybe change
sendRosterAdd to take in an ID instead of bare Strings since remove
takes an ID (or the other way around and take Strings for both). Both
methods should probably also be renamed to something simple. addBuddy
and removeBuddy is short and to the point.

I'm fine with moving and removing the fromID. I don't want to introduce 'buddy' at the same time as 'roster, rosterentry, etc'. Although it is popularly referred to as a 'buddy list', I would like to be consistent about use of 'buddy' or 'roster' and so would like to stay with one or the other. My preference at this point is to stay with 'roster' and 'rosterentry' rather than 'buddy list', and 'buddy'.

For account management, there's an IAccountManager interface that can
be returned from an IPCA. This interface makes some very optimistic
assumptions. Unfortunately, nine times out of ten, an IM protocol is
going to make you sign up or change your password via a browser and
not via the IM application itself. Perhaps the
isAccountCreationSupported() method needs to be renamed to something
more general. I'm assuming getAccountInstructions() is supposed to
return instructions on how to sign-up for an account? If that's the
case, a method rename is probably in order (or javadoc-ed

Yeah, the method rename and javadocs is probably the right answer.

Some methods for manipulating the account's attributes may be useful
as people will want to change their display name, their location, bio,
avatar, or whatever, from time to time. Actually, maybe a spin-off
IAccount should be added or something which would consume
sendRosterAdd and sendRosterRemove (as above) and other account
manipulation methods. Having an IAccount will also help shorten this
getAccount*() business to a slimmer get*(). I also think IAccount
should also provide a way for getting the list of buddies, say,
returning a List of IRosterGroups.

Yes, I think probably a new interface (maybe IAccount) should probably be created to hold roster add/remove methods, getting a list of buddys (entire roster) as well as account level functions.

IRosterGroup is quite simple and I don't have any problems with it
myself, though I do have a some suggestions for IRosterEntry. One, I
think getPresenceState() can be shortened to getPresence(), same thing
really, anyway.

True.  Good idea.

Two, setPresenceState(IPresence) needs to be removed.


<stuff deleted>
A minor technicality, but perhaps both roster
interfaces should be removed to something else (that is preferably
much shorter). I present two alternatives here with IGroup/IContact
and IGroup/IBuddy. Perhaps you can think of something better.

Although we could do this, I would be opposed to it unless it was a) something obviously better/clearer to everyone than roster; and b) not 'buddy'. So if we can collectively come up with something that is better here then we can do that, but I haven't seen anything (yet) that is particularly good.

Now let's take a look at the chatting capabilities that the presence
API provides.

The chatting API is actually pretty good for the most parts in my
opinion. The only places I'd suggest changes for would be in
IInvitationListener and in IRoomInfo and maybe IChatRoomContainer.

In IInvitationListener, I'd provide similar arguments for what I wrote
about for IPresenceSender and IMessageSender above. The 'to' parameter
is always going to be yourself as I don't think people really care
when other people are invited (I sure don't).

Yeah, I agree.

The 'subject' parameter
can probably also be dropped too since the message body itself should
be enough to say it all.

I would prefer to leave the 'subject' parameter since XMPP supports it...but it can be hidden more effectively.

For IRoomInfo, I would suggest removing its getConnectedID() method
since off-hand I can't really imagine when it wouldn't be yourself. Of
course, it may still be useful to be able to get your own ID at times,
I don't know, just throwing this one out.

Lastly, I think there needs to be a method to get the participants of
a chatroom, either from IChatRoomContainer or IRoomInfo. You can get
the number with IRoomInfo's getParticipantsCount(), but you can't get
the participants, which seems a little bit weird. I understand
sometimes you can't see who is in the channel, but in those cases a
null or an empty array can always be returned or something like that.
It just seems too crude to have to use an IChatParticipantListener to
do this by hand. This will also have the added effect of indirectly
fixing bug #160126 [1] in no time.

Seems reasonable.

One problem I have not figured out how to solve yet is notifying
changes in a user's status within a chatroom. In IM protocols, this
should be not be a problem since you have an IPCA and can just use
IPresenceListener. However, in a chatting context like IRC, this is
not really possible, and is rather annoying [2]. You could "cheat" and
have your IChatRoomContainer implementation also implement IPCA, which
is a little weird but is actually what I did a month or two ago when I
looked at the IRC provider and made heavy modifications to it because
it was missing a lot of things.

Or the IChatRoomContainer could optionally implement IPCA (based upon whether the protocol/provider supported this).

Thanks much for the thoughts/comments Remy. We can make many of these changes fairly soon. I (Scott) can't work on it right away, however, as this week I've got travelling, Eclipse Foundation Board meeting, several other things for ECF bugs/enhancement requests. So if I apply these changes it would probably have to wait a little while.

If someone else can work on these right away, however, I would be happy to apply the changes during this week.

The main plugins included would be: org.eclipse.ecf.presence (API plugin), org.eclipse.ecf.provider.xmpp (xmpp impl based upon smack), org.eclipse.ecf.provider.irc (IRC impl based upon irclib...still on 1.0.4 but moving soon to 1.10), org.eclipse.ecf.provider.jxta (jxta impl at, and the org.eclipse.ecf.example.collab example application.

I've created a bug with all of the above notes from Remy and my/Erkki's notes from above as:

Please if someone begins work on these changes then I would ask that they

1) let everyone know via this list
2) assign the bug #167363 to yourself
3) do one or just a few of these refactorings at a time, run the test applications (and/or generate new test cases for presence API named org.eclipse.ecf.tests.presence package) 4) checkin changes (or post as patch(es)) and report the changes as a comment to bug 167363

Thanks much to Remy.  This will be very helpful!!
Comments and suggestions are welcome with open arms! :) We should
strive to flesh this out before 1.0. ;)

Yes indeed.  Tis the season.


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