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RE: [e4-dev] Why XML UI is important for us

In fact, there are two aspects:

1.       Serialization

2.       Implementation of framework

 

Most of us focus on the level 2 using EMF. But from my point of view, we should start on 1 first to define the serialization standardization, which is I call UI Language.  This language enables all tools/frameworks (EMF-based or not, Java or not) to work together.

 

In fact, here I guess someone uses the “EMF” to mean “EMF serialization”.

 

Best regards

Yves YANG

From: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sabri Skhiri
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:43 PM
To: E4 Project developer mailing list
Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Why XML UI is important for us

 

Hi Yves,

I think this is a wrong debate, whathever you use EMF or XML, the grpahical designers will not use XML with XSLT or EMF model-code, they will use editors, from this view port they are equally similar. Then, we have to find where EMF or XML can add value in term of features and flexibility for back-end integration, transformation, adaptation, listener,etc. from the developer point of view.

Best regards,

Sabri.

2009/10/9 yves (yingmin) yang <yves.yang@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi Eike,

 

As a declarative UI which will be used by different tools and different profile users (not only Java UI Developer, but also graphic designer, Domain developer and system designer), the most important is to provide a Universal UI Language (of course, Model-based). On top of this language, we can use all frameworks we want such as EMF.  

 

Best regards

Yves YANG

From: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eike Stepper
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:33 AM
To: E4 Project developer mailing list
Subject: Re: [e4-dev] Why XML UI is important for us

 

Hi,

Please note that the actual file format is not mandated by EMF. XML/XMI is just one of many possibilities to persist EMF models. With XText you can store EObjects even in domain (UI) specific syntax.

Cheers
/Eike

----
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper


kfang@xxxxxx schrieb:

Hi Sabri,
 
I think that every application developer (Java, C++, C# etc.) can
understand the XML format, but, it isn't the case for EMF. So if we want to
promote the a universal declarative UI, it must be XML format. The EMF is
too complex  for a application developer.
 
 
 
 
Kaiping FANG
 
Systems Architecture Manager
CCR
31, rue de Courcelles
 
75008 PARIS – France
 
Tél :  +33 (0) 1 44 35 38 01
Fax : +33 (0) 1 44 13 77 36
Mobile : +33 (0) 6 71 29 95 75
E-mail : kfang@xxxxxx
 
www.ccr.fr
 
 
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Hi Kaiping,
 
Thank you for your exposing your experience. That's an interesting point
you have just raised. You pointed that declarative UI is finally the most
important feature for building UI. That means that for the final User who
creates the UI, whatever the declaration is in XML or EMF (Actually even if
it is in EMF the user does see the difference if he uses an editor), the
most important is that is declarative and dynamic (can be re-deployed
without compilation).
However, when the developer wants more complex integration of the
declarative UI, such as detecting the lost of focus, putting listener (as
adapter) or even connecting back-end objects by transformation (aggregate
objects, fields, etc.) the model approach makes sense.
 
 
Sabri.
 
2009/10/8 <kfang@xxxxxx>
 
      Hi,
 
      Here, I want to introduce our experiences concerning the XML UI
      description:
 
      1.       Why XML UI?
                     My company (CCR) is one of most important reinsurance
      company in the world. Our application is a specific enterprise ERP
      application, which manages the contracts, the claims and the
      accountings
      with different kinds of insurance companies. Precisely, It has
      already more
      than 1500 UI forms. The UI change is our frequent activity in
      software
      development and the time to market is critical. The UI development in
 
      Java
      presents a lot of problems:
 
           -   High technical knowledge in UI programming for all UI
      developers,
      there is no separation between Component developer and Domain
      developer.
           -   UI quality depends on Java developer skill level
           -   Impossible to control UI Theme and to enforce UI Guidelines
           -   UI Ergonomic is always ignored by Java developer
 
      XML UI is very important for us because we want a declarative UI
      description instead of a programming UI description. We think also
      that the
      UI description has to be independent of computer programming
      language.
      We look for a standard XML UI solution since long time ago. But
      unfortunately, we had to develop and maintain our own XML UI solution
      since
      xx years ago.
 
      2.       About on XWT
      We have followed closely the progress of XWT since beginning. All
      features
      provided seems very powerful. It is what we wait for since long time.
 
 
      On waiting for e4
 
 
 
      Kaiping FANG
 
      Systems Architecture Manager
      CCR
      31, rue de Courcelles
      75008 PARIS – France
 
      Tél :  +33 (0) 1 44 35 38 01
      Fax : +33 (0) 1 44 13 77 36
      Mobile : +33 (0) 6 71 29 95 75
      E-mail : kfang@xxxxxx
 
      www.ccr.fr
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      e4-dev mailing list
      e4-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
      https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/e4-dev
 
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