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Re: [e4-dev] how to contribute to toolkit model ?

Il giorno 31/ago/09, alle ore 15:14, yves (yingmin) yang ha scritto:

i think that e4 should definitly work on this emf-centric toolkit
instead of XWT...

With all respects to you and your solution, I remind you kindly to give us
your arguments when you compare to another solution.

this is true. i'm sorry. 


As a standard solution of eclipse, we take all aspects into the
consideration such as extensibility, flexibility and integration with
existing application, etc. Maybe these aspects are not important in your
projects in a specific context, but I think they are important for e4 as a
generic and standard solution. Let me ask you a simple question: Can you use
a user-defined UI element without deploy of your application? For example,
we have two classes (same as in my demo in e4 for XWT): Company and Person.
Company has a reference to Person named "Manager". We define a view for
Person first, and then we want to reuse it in Company's view as embedded
element for the reference "manager". Can you get the instant preview of
Company view without deploy it in eclipse runtime? It is very important for
tooling such as VE and PMF.


I'm not sure to understand. In XWT is possible to use user defined UI element without deploy ?



I'm an EMF lover. I have used and will use EMF as much as I can. But I'm not
blindly to use it anywhere. Typically, we have an eclipse modeling project
for UI (named PMF) that relies on EMF. But EMF solution for declarative UI
has more cons then pros from the industry point of view:
  1. Introduce another programming APIs for dynamic aspect, not traditional
SWT/JFace APIs
  2. The Interface/Implementation/Factory pattern has a limited benefice
for declarative UI in eclipse/e4 context
     It reduces directly the extensibility and flexibility. 1



i'm not bindly to use it anywhere. but i'm bindly to use when i have to manage data model and IMHO ui parts are data model.

Using emf not introduce another programming API but instead use the same as the modeled workbench

the use of emf formalize a standard way to access and interact with your model. this mean to simplify the things. SWT is much more difficult, no ? 

i agree with you when you tell that TM is in short of time for the e4 train.

i agree with yout when you tell that XWT is already a real project and not a draft like TM.

peraphs i strongly believe that using other tecnology than EMF to model the UI is an important missing for the future.

have a look at CDO, at TENEO, at the EMF COMPARE , at GEF etcect .... we are closing the doors to all the tools choosing to not use EMF as model tecnology.

Yves, this is just the opinion of an eclipse RCP user 

this is not about the quality of your work or the XAML standard!! : )



Giulio




Best regards
Yves YANG
-----Original Message-----
IFrom: e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:e4-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Giulio Seregni
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:00 PM
To: E4 Project developer mailing list
Subject: Re: [e4-dev] how to contribute to toolkit model ?


Il giorno 31/ago/09, alle ore 11:07, Hallvard Trætteberg ha scritto:

Giulio Seregni wrote:
Hi all,
  i' m very interested in contributing to the toolkit model.
  l've already developed a similar project as internal project for
my company.

Great! It's good to be able to work with someone with relevant
experience. Could you tell me more about your company's project?


The project use a rendering service similar to the TM one. but we preferred
to implement  a renderer (binder for TM) for every control.  
(one for label, one for button etct ect)

the rendering service was also responsable to properly handle layout when
adding/removing elements from the model.

the model was very specific to SWT and JFACE. we did not felf the necessity
to be more... abstract.




  where can i find info about what is needed?
  why i can't find any bug related to TM on bugzilla ?
  who's developing the project?

Here's the entry in the e4 wiki:
http://wiki.eclipse.org/E4/UI/Toolkit_Model

There are two feature requests in the e4 bugzilla, under the UI
component and prefixed by [TM]:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=
[TM]

There reason there are so few, is that I'm the only commiter and
nobody else have had time/interest to help me.

The code is in CVS, I just checked in the latest changes before the
weekend.



i already checkout the code and had a look.


i have differents questions and i would like to open (and hopefully to
close) differents bugs but i would prefer to insert theme when there will be
and appropriate component in Bugzilla. Boris ?


are you on some IRC channel ? i would like, if you have the time, to
understand some design issue....



i think that e4 should definitly work on this emf-centric toolkit instead of
XWT...


regards,

Giulio


Regards,

Hallvard Trætteberg
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