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RE: [dsdp-tm-dev] Re: [platform-team-dev] RE: what are the Platformplans for Team/FTP?
|
Thanks for the notes Michael.
Yes I could imagine that DSDP / Target Management becomes
the home for
Team / Extras in the future. We'll need to discuss this
internally since we also
don't want to get side-tracked too much into things that
are not our core
competence - though it seems that Target Management is at
least better aligned
with the Team/Extras stuff than
Platform/Team.
For the Commons Net, let's see if EMO approves and then
think about where
to put it. But I agree that plugin and inter-project
dependencies are not easy
to decide. Perhaps if we inherit Team/Extras, the Commons
Net would make
most sense in our project too.
Any comments from the other experts on the distribution
list?
Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber -
WindRiver, Austria
+43(662)457915-85
Martin,
Regarding your question about making the potential
inclusion of Jakarta Commons Net into DSDP benefitial to a wider audience, I'm
not sure what the right answer is. I don't think that trying to push it into
the Platform is a good idea since, if everyone did this, the Platform would
become too large. I seem to recall reading some blog postings about having an
Eclipse Commons or something similar. That strikes me as something that could
be generally useful to a lot of Eclipse projects. 'm not sure if anything came
of those discussions though.
Regarding the Team/Extras feature, the main contributing factor to the
state of the this feature is that we do not have a use for the funtionality it
provides in the Platform (and hence have never really put the in the effort
required to make it "real"). We have tried to find a more suitable home for it
in the past but there was little interest from the other Eclipse projects at
the time. If the DSDP project has a need for this type of funtionality, then
perhaps you should start out as the owner of the funtionality. There is no
particular reason to be tied to anything that is currently found in the
Team/Extras feature. I think you can treat these as an interesting experiment
but should not feel bound to reuse anything from there unless it makes sense
for you. If some of the APIs that are designed in DSDP to handle target
management turn out to be more generally useful, they could be pushed into
some sort of Commons or Component project (assuming one is created at some
point).
I agree with you that the
EFS is interesting but is only a small part of the puzzle. I'll make sure to
check out your RSE once the dust from the 3.2 release settles.
Michael
"Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by:
platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
05/16/2006 07:59 AM
|
Please respond
to
Generic team support
framework |
|
|
To
| "Target Management
developer discussions" <dsdp-tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
<platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Scott Lewis"
<slewis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, John Arthorne/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA, Harm
Sluiman/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA
|
|
cc
|
|
|
Subject
| [platform-team-dev]
RE: what are the Platform plans for
Team/FTP? |
|
Hello Michael,
1. Good quality protocol
implementations:
I agree
that these may weel be key to success. For our project, we have
submitted a contribution
questionnaire for the Jakarta Commons Net
package, so that should bring in a commercial quality FTP
client.
What do you think - how
would we go ahead contributing this in a form
that is most beneficial for everyone?
We also have an
ssh / sftp client in our Repository (using jsch), and
Atsuhiko Yamanaka is offering an ssh / sftp
implementation for
Team/Extras
from his website (www.jcraft.com) which he declared he
would be willing to contribute to Eclipse.
I'm not sure where
to get a commercial grade WebDAV client, or who
could improve the existing one.
The ECF FTP
implementation is more an experimental proof of concept
for the ECF fileshare API for now as far as I
know.
2. Target Management APIs:
We think that filesharing is only part of the story of
managing remote targets.
Our
APIs also address remote processes, remote shells, remote search
plus they are open for managing any
type of remote resource in what we
call "subsystems".
It
looks like particular power comes from combining remote shell / remote
search / remote file APIs.
Filesharing is certainly the most well-known aspect of managing remote
resources, and EFS is a first
step towards unifying remote file access.
We are working on an article that will contrast EFS with the
APIs that
we have.
We
should certainly collaborate in getting the APIs right and working
towards
common solutions.
3. UI
and advanced functionality:
Compared to the Team/Extras "Site Explorer", our Remote Systems
Explorer
(RSE, see http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm) has a similar view (Remote Systems
View) but advanced features:
- Local Caching of remote
information
- Advanced properties of remote
objects
- Sorting, Filtering, Table Views; Team
sharing of filters and properties
- Extension points for arbitrary types
of remote resources, not just files
All that at the cost of more plugin dependencies, of course
(I don't think we are
ready for
RCP apps, though we are refactoring towards better separation of
functionality). Feel free to
test our RSE - It's still in an early M1 stage after
quite some refactoring but following the steps
from the release notes you
should get the idea of what we are doing.
I could imagine
that eventually, functionality for remote access can be contributed
through a single extension point and be
available immediately
-
for the Workspace (through EFS)
- for advanced remote management (through our RSE)
- for RCP apps (through your
Site Explorer).
Let's stay in touch and collaborate on making that
happen.
Cheers,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver,
Austria
+43(662)457915-85
From: dsdp-tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:dsdp-tm-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Michael
Valenta
Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 8:57 PM
To: Target
Management developer discussions
Subject: [dsdp-tm-dev] Fw:
[platform-team-dev] What are the Platform plansfor Team/FTP?
-----
Forwarded by Michael Valenta/Ottawa/IBM on 05/12/2006 02:56 PM
-----
Michael
Valenta/Ottawa/IBM@IBMCA
Sent by:
platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
05/12/2006 01:54 PM
|
Please respond
to
Generic team support framework |
|
|
To
| Generic
team support framework
<platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
|
cc
| platform-webdav-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx,
platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx, Target Management developer
discussions <dsdp-tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
|
|
Subject
| Re:
[platform-team-dev] What are the Platform plans for
Team/FTP? |
|
Martin,
At the current time, the
FTP/WebDAV plugins are not being actively developed or maintained and there is
currently no plan for this to change (although interest and involvement by
other Eclipse projects would go a long way in changing this). The page at the
following link describes how to access all the plugins that are found in the
FTP/WebWAV feature:
http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/%7Echeckout%7E/platform-vcm-home/plugins/target/target-project-sets/readme.html
Just to summarize what is
in this feature:
1) A WebDAV client and an FTP client that are plugins but have
minimal dependencies on other plugins
2) A provisional target management API that has
bindings for both WebDAV and FTP
3) Some UI and advanced funtionality that is built
on top of the provisional API
The key to the success of points 2 and 3 is having production
quality implementations for FTP and WebDAV (point 1). We (the Team/CVS team)
have not had enough manpower to justify this effort. Many people have expresed
an interest in these plugisn but, up until now, there has been no committment
from an Eclipse project to dedicate resources to these plugins (or identify
suitable alternatives that can be used by Eclipse).
In regards to point 2, In 3.2, the
org.eclipse.core.filesystem plugin was introduced. This API is similar in many
respects to the provisional target API. Moving forward, this should be the API
that is used for managing remote files (i.e. we don't want two APIs that do
roughly the same thing). The added advantage is that Resources plugin using
the EFS as the file system for workspace projects.
In regards to point 3, we didn't
have much time in 3.2. to dedicate to EFS related UI. I suspect EFS related UI
pieces will start to appear from various places in 3.3.
As for the
ECF, I was not aware they had an FTP client and I can't find any information
on their site but I will follow up with them to get more information. As for
joining forces, I think that would be great.
Cheers,
Michael
"Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by:
platform-team-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
05/12/2006 05:42 AM
|
Please respond
to
Generic team support
framework |
|
|
To
| <platform-team-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>,
<platform-webdav-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
|
cc
| Target Management
developer discussions <dsdp-tm-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
|
|
Subject
| [platform-team-dev]
What are the Platform plans for
Team/FTP? |
|
Hello,
The DSDP-Target
Management Project deals with connecting to remote
systems
and working
on them through a variety of protocols. Some of our clients
are also
interested in FTP. See http://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
I was wondering
what the Platform's plans are for the Team/Extras FTP
component. I looked
at the sources that come with the 3.2rc3 Team/Extras
package, and all APIs
are declared provisional. I couldn't even find
the plugin in the Platform
CVS Repository to see when latest changes
have been made and who is working
on it.
So, I hope to get some answers on this mailing list -
* Whom
can I contact regarding Team/FTP?
* What are the plans going
forward?
It might make sense to join forces. Our project is working on
common
protocol abstractions, including data transfer; Eclipse
Communication
Framework (ECF) also did an FTP implementation,
see
http://www.eclipse.org/ecf
Thanks,
Martin
--
---------------------------------/()\-----------------------------------
Dipl.-Ing.
Martin Oberhuber
mailto:martin.oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Member of Technical Staff
Phone (UTC +1h): +43 (662)
457915-85
Wind River Systems (Salzburg) GmbH
Fax: +43 (662) 457915-6
Jakob-Haringer-Str.8, A-5020
Salzburg, Austria http://www.windriver.com
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