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Dear PMC,
here is another item worth discussing at our next
meeting:
I recently learned that counter the practice that we have
used
up to now for defining Themes for our XML project plans, it
looks
like the Board's original intent was to have the
project plan
themse aligned "as good as possible" with the
Requirements
See the E-mail thread below for some background. Each
project
will need to decide whether they'll want to change their
project
plans or not.
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project
Lead, DSDP PMC Member
Hi Don, and Bjorn,
if you think that you advertised this idea sufficiently,
I'm not
going to interfere.
I know the background now, although I'm afraid that for
my
own project (TM) it's too late for
changing my plan (I currently
have 11 themes, none of which is a copy of
the
RC T&P, although it's partially
referenced).
I'm not going to think for other projects, and I'm not
going
to change my own plan unless there comes clear advice for
doing so from the Board or the EMO. For me,
personally,
advice has been sufficiently unclear to justify the
plan that I
have now.
Like Ed, I'm against the idea of artificially tweaking
project
priorities
into pre-existing themes. I'd be more in favor of an
additional
"appliesTo" tag in the XML, which allows linking a
project
theme with one (or more?) RC T&P themes.
The rest of the
DSDP projects, all of which already have
created their
plans, may be in a similar boat although I'm
going to inform
them of the board's intent to have the
project T&P
aligned "as good as possible" with the
RC
T&P.
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
Target Management Project
Lead, DSDP PMC Member
I thought that's what I did in the email that started this
thread!!!
- Don
(Apologies if terse - sent from mobile
device)
Donald Smith
Director of Ecosystem Development
Eclipse
Foundation, Inc.
P:+1 613 224 9461 x231
C:+1 613 292 5160
F:+1 212
918 1619
From: "Oberhuber, Martin"
<Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008
14:06:56 +0200
To: Bjorn
Freeman-Benson<bjorn.freeman-benson@xxxxxxxxxxx>; Donald
Smith<donald.smith@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Suspected
Spam][Blocked Sender]Re: FW: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P
Feedback RE: Roadmap Process
Hi Bjorn,
given that many projects are writing their plans NOW, and
given
that the intended relationship to the RC T&P is not
obvious, I'd
recommend officially reminding projects (and PMCs) about
that intention.
Cheers,
--
Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical
Staff, Wind River
Target Management
Project Lead, DSDP PMC Member
Donald, Martin,
My understanding of the Board's instructions
are to use the Requirements Council's Themes & Priorities as much as
possible, but to remain flexible when projects have additional
project-specific Themes that do not match the overall RC themes.
However, in the end, it is the role of the PMCs to align the Themes &
Priorities for their projects, not the role of the EMO.
-
Bjorn
-----Original Message----- From: Oberhuber, Martin [mailto:Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: September 25, 2008 11:34 AM To: Donald Smith Cc: Bjorn Freeman-Benson Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process Importance: High Hi Don, you are right that the relationship of Project Plan Themes to Roadmap Themes had been proposed by Bjorn inhttps://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301#c13 But it had not been obvious from the beginning ("Theme_faster", "Theme_better" in the bug description), and the established practice of artificially squeezing project work into the roadmap themes has been critisized when the project plan xml format was created: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301#c15https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301#c29 Then, at some point Bjorn commented: "Nothing in this proposal prevents projects from adding new themes. I'm not sure where you saw that restriction. The themes are just text and you can enter whatever text you want."https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301#c56 Re-reading all the comments (and especially)https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=215301#c41 it looks like the board's original intent was indeed to have project's XML plans aligned with the Roadmap T&P as you suggest, but that original intention got astray at some point - and it looks like the plans we have today are probably not very usable for the Board. How should we proceed? Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Memberhttp://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
-----Original Message----- From: Donald Smith [mailto:donald.smith@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:52 PM To: Oberhuber, Martin Cc: 'Bjorn Freeman-Benson' Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process CC'ing Bjorn for clarification (I believe he is out though). If you look at the DASH example, it says: "The Dash project is not a traditional Eclipse project in that it is in support of the Eclipse committers and member rather than in support of adopters and users. Thus the Dash project has a somewhat different set of Themes and Priorities than those defined by the Requirements Council." Ergo, if a project is not being consistent with the existing T&P, then there needs to be a good explanation as to why. If there is a need for a new T&P, it needs to be considered being added to the main T&P document (hence why I've asked for input). - Don -----Original Message----- From: Oberhuber, Martin [mailto:Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: September 25, 2008 2:55 AM To: Donald Smith Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process Hi Don, that's right but in my understanding the Themes and Priorities in the Project Plan are project specific and not necessarily connected to the RC T&P in any way. Look at Bjorn's Dash Example and all the other existing project plans... they all have themes which are project specific. Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Memberhttp://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
-----Original Message----- From: Donald Smith [mailto:donald.smith@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:47 AM To: Oberhuber, Martin Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process Hi Martin, http://wiki.eclipse.org/Development_Resources/Project_Plan It's right there in the XML: <themes_and_priorities> <preamble> <html:div>Some xhtml content here. Make sure to use the prefix before the elements</html:div> </preamble> <theme name="Appealing to the Broader Community"> <description>...(optional) html...</description> <committed bugzilla="...(recommended) bugzilla
search url...">
...(optional alternate) html...</committed> <proposed bugzilla="...(recommended) bugzilla
search url...">
...(optional alternate) html...</proposed> <deferred bugzilla="...(recommended) bugzilla
search url...">
...(optional alternate) html...</deferred> </theme> <theme name="Design for Extensibility"> <description>...(optional) html...</description> <committed bugzilla="...(recommended) bugzilla
search url...">
...(optional alternate) html...</committed> <proposed bugzilla="...(recommended) bugzilla
search url...">
...(optional alternate) html...</proposed> <deferred bugzilla="...(recommended) bugzilla
search url...">
...(optional alternate) html...</deferred> </theme> </themes_and_priorities> A key part of the project plan it to show committed, proposed and deferred progress towards each Theme and Priority! -----Original Message----- From: Oberhuber, Martin [mailto:Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: September 24, 2008 6:05 PM To: donald.smith@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process Hi Don, I think that I know the project plan xml structure quite well since I helped developing it and was one of the earliest adopters. Still, I'm not aware what tags specifically could be used to link into the T&P -- this might be an oversight on my behalf, or an initial idea for such tags was finally not added to the xml format. In terms of feedback format, I'm fine with any as long as there is consensus on what to use. Merging stuff does not make sense. Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Memberhttp://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
-----Original Message----- From: Donald Smith [mailto:donald.smith@xxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 11:59 PM To: Oberhuber, Martin; Donald Smith Subject: Re: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process Hi martin - on balckberry so I will be terse. The details on the project plan and format are in bjorns origional email that I replied too, it should have been inlined in the email. A bug is fine, but wikis have a talk function too. I will open a bug if you think its better than wiki. - Don (Apologies if terse - sent from mobile device) Donald Smith Director of Ecosystem Development Eclipse Foundation, Inc. P:+1 613 224 9461 x231 C:+1 613 292 5160 F:+1 212 918 1619 -----Original Message----- From: "Oberhuber, Martin" <Martin.Oberhuber@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 23:13:59 To: Donald Smith<donald.smith@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process Hi Don,
As noted earlier this year, the new Project Plan format has tags for linking to the 2008 Themes and Priorities.
Forgive my ignorance, but how exactly would that work? Where is it documented?
XML format, further review by all the councils would be
very welcome. So what exactly would you like the councils to do? Review the T&P Themes and wording? In what format would you like the feedback? I'd suggest a single channel that all councils can share, bugzilla might be appropriate for this. Cheers, -- Martin Oberhuber, Senior Member of Technical Staff, Wind River Target Management Project Lead, DSDP PMC Memberhttp://www.eclipse.org/dsdp/tm
-----Original Message----- From: eclipse.org-architecture-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse.org-architecture-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donald Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:26 PM To: 'eclipse.org-planning-council'; eclipse.org-project-leadership@xxxxxxxxxxx; 'eclipse.org-requirements-council'; eclipse.org-architecture-council@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [eclipse.org-architecture-council] T&P Feedback RE: Roadmap Process All, As noted earlier this year, the new Project Plan format has tags for linking to the 2008 Themes and Priorities. To be blunt, not a lot of updates have been made to the T&P's due to lack of response. Only minor tweaks have been made over the last couple of years. Based on limited feedback and my own personal experiences, I've made a quick pass through of the T&P for inclusion in the 2008 Road Map: http://wiki.eclipse.org/RequirementsCouncilThemesAndPriorities Given this document serves as the basis of the T&P tag of the Project Plan XML format, further review by all the councils would be
very welcome.
- Don -----Original Message----- From: eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:eclipse.org-planning-council-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bjorn Freeman-Benson Sent: July 25, 2008 3:58 PM To: eclipse.org-project-leadership@xxxxxxxxxxx; eclipse.org-planning-council Subject: [eclipse.org-planning-council] Roadmap Process Project Leaders, As project leaders, I'm sure you're aware that the
Eclipse Board of
Directors requires us to put together a Roadmap each year. The process and the deadlines that the Board has set for us are: 1. By *September 30th, 2008*, all projects will have
public project
plans in the standardized project plan format (see
http://wiki.eclipse.org/Development_Resources/Project_Plan).
2. The PMCs will review these plans during the month of October 2008. 3. The PMCs will deliver these plans to the Planning
Council at the
end of October and the Planning Council will meet during the month of November (either physically or virtually) to write the planning section of the Roadmap. 4. The Planning and Requirements Councils will deliver
the complete
Roadmap document to the Board of Directors at the end
of November
for the Board's consideration and approval during a plenary Council+Board meeting in December. So, the key message here is that you (and I, because I'm a project lead too, thus really "we") have to complete our project
plans, in the
specified format, using the project meta-data and
everything, by
September 30th. My calendar shows that we have 67 calendar days and 47 work-week-days (modulo various holidays) to complete our project plans. - Bjorn _______________________________________________ eclipse.org-planning-council mailing listeclipse.org-planning-council@xxxxxxxxxxx
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