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Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Eierlegende Wollmilchsau

Hi,

Thanks for the contribution and the effort, Ed. I was curious to see many times Papyrus coming here. So I will have someone on our side to have a look to the various issues when possible.

Here is a summary of what I could read in the previous messages / Bugzilla:
- The startup issues: we already had a cleanup task these last years to remove many of them. For the 5 remaining, I opened the task 484001 [1] to investigate the possibility to remove them or what we are missing in Eclipse to avoid that.
 - BPMN2 and Papyrus relies on the same file extension, 'di'. That may be the cause of the conflicts, and typically kind of hard to solve unless one of the projects switch to another extension.
- Same there for conflicts between Efx and Papyrus. We both provide a css xtext based editor. We have some issues with xtext to differentiate the editor other than extension-based. And again Efx and Papyrus rely on same file extension, e.g. 'css'
- Preference pages: Camille already gave some information earlier, and we will have a look to these pages. 

We would be of course interested in investigating for earlier Mars.2 those issues on preferences initializations on Papyrus and see how we can help there. 

Regards,
Rémi


[1] 484001: [User Experience] Investigate the 5 remaing Papyrus bundles on early  startup - https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=484001
-------------------------------------------------------

Rémi SCHNEKENBURGER
+33 (0)1 69 08 48 48
CEA Saclay Nano-INNOV
Institut CARNOT CEA LIST

www.eclipse.org/papyrus


-----Message d'origine-----
De : cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Ed Merks
Envoyé : mercredi 9 décembre 2015 12:03
À : cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Objet : Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Eierlegende Wollmilchsau

Camille ,

Sorry, it's not my intent to offend anyone and I hoped not to do a lot of finger pointing though of course it's good if people pay attention and fix problems that are home grown.  This is a reflection of how darned frustrated I was with Papyrus when I was trying to get Oomph's automated preference initialization code to work with all the stuff it's likely to encounter on the release train because I didn't want a whack of Oomph bugs opened simple because preferences pages themselves are ill behaved.  Also, being the Modeling project lead, I feel somewhat personally responsible for the state of the modeling projects.  So I definitely appreciate that you've responded with an action plan immediately!  And I'm sorry that I over generalized my statements.

There's been some discussion about automated testing.  The fact that Oomph provides support to automatically visit all preference pages and to log warnings about any that are ill behaved is perhaps a step in that 
direction.   Certainly one can imagine using  Eierlegende Wollmilchsau 
to install a staged version of Mars.2 and use the preference initialization support to visit all preference pages, and drive bug reports for projects to fix their preference pages before Mar.2 is released.  And of course you can do the same test yourself with any Papyrus installation.

Thanks,
Ed


On 09/12/2015 11:38 AM, LETAVERNIER Camille wrote:
> Hi Ed,
>
> Thanks for the initiative. Just a quick answer on this part:
>
>   > In the Error log you'll see many new errors.   Papyrus is a big
>> offender.   Please someone on the Papyrus team, review what is going on
>> with all your preference pages!  They just don't work at all.
> We have a single preference page (+ 2 sub pages), generated from an XText Grammar, which apparently has not been properly regenerated recently. Admittedly, when opening these 3 pages, that generates 12 errors in the log (4/page or subpage) and a bunch of Eclipse error dialogs, so it's scary. But that's a little bit harsh to jump to the conclusion that "Our preferences don't work at all". Anyway, we're looking into the issue.
>
> Otherwise, that's an interesting initiative. Thanks for the feedback 
> :)
>
> Regards,
> Camille
>
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx 
> [mailto:cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Ed 
> Merks Envoyé : mercredi 9 décembre 2015 07:54 À : Cross project issues 
> <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Objet : [cross-project-issues-dev] Eierlegende Wollmilchsau
>
> Hi,
>
> We've created an all-in-one Eclipse product affectionately called 
> Eclipse Eierlegende Wollmilchsau. For the linguistically challenged,
> it's the Eclipse Egg-laying Wool-milk-pig.   Like the ultimate
> all-in-one farm animal, this Eclipse product can do everything because 
> it installs everything on the release train.  Unfortunately, it's not
> pretty.   I've opened
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=483982 to track this 
> issue.  It's probably best that follow up discussions take place on 
> this Bugzilla.
>
> To give it a try, use the Eclipse Installer, switch to advanced mode, 
> and locate this product in the Eclipse.org Applications product catalog;
> typing "wol" in the filter will locate it quickly.   Probably you'll
> want to pick the Mars version so that your bundle pool fills with 
> useful things you might want to install some other time.  We generate 
> this product such that it installs all the categories on the release 
> train, except the the RT category.
>
> Some immediate observations.  The toolbar has a lot of buttons, some of
> them very large compared to the others.   Unless you're blessed with a
> very wide monitor, they won't all fit on one line.   Do we really need
> all these buttons in all perspectives?
>
> Open the Error log when the installation first starts.  Clearly there 
> are some ill behaved plugins.  ECF contributes some things that don't 
> work well.  BPMN2 and Papyrus don't play well together. Nor do Eclipse 
> FX and Papyrus.  There's a battle for key bindings. Scout feels the 
> need to inform the user of fact that it's started.
>
> Open the Progress view and note that there will be jobs that never 
> will finish.  What are these jobs trying to do?
>
> One reason we created this product is so we can test what's going on 
> with all the preferences.  There are certainly a great many of them.  
> In fact, if you try to visit them all, you'll run out of SWT handles, 
> so don't do that.  With the latest version of Oomph, the preferences 
> dialog includes an alert (little light bulb) down in the bottom left 
> of the preferences dialog that allows you to initialize all 
> preferences to their defaults; it will show only if you enable the preference recorder
> (via the button to the right of the help button).   A great many
> preference pages change preferences just by virtue of visiting the page
> and hitting OK.   With the preference recorder, this results in many
> preferences being recorded that you've never actually changed to be 
> different from the default. Using the alert button, Oomph 
> automatically visits all pages without recording any changes.  It must 
> periodically dismiss the preference dialog to ensure it doesn't run out of SWT
> handles.   You might want to give that a try; please read the Help
> documentation of the "Preference Initialization" dialog.
>
> Some things to note afterward.   How many preferences cause UI freeze
> report? Now that all bundles have been started, the jobs on the 
> Progress view go crazy and they never ever finish.  My computer fan comes on.
> It's not pleasant.  Restarting the IDE helps put a stop to this.   I
> believe it's the Linux tools doing this.  Does it make sense to have 
> Linux tools on my Windows machine?  Probably not, but why is it an 
> option if it makes no sense? I.e., can't the category requirements 
> include filters to eliminate these choices? There are also several 
> linux tools in the General Purpose Tools category, e.g.,  docker, 
> changelog, and rpm.  Are these really general purpose or Linux 
> specific?  Certainly RPM does not play nicely on my Windows box; jobs 
> that apparently never finish, but work very hard doing goodness knows what...
>
> In the Error log you'll see many new errors.   Papyrus is a big
> offender.   Please someone on the Papyrus team, review what is going on
> with all your preference pages!  They just don't work at all. Also 
> note that Oomph logs warnings for all pages that come up in an invalid 
> state initially.  Once the user navigates to this preference page, 
> they can't leave.  No page should be initially invalid.  Thym and 
> Linux tools are offenders in this case.  LDT, Data Tools, and BIRT 
> should all have a look at this log because visiting their preferences result in errors.
>
> Also have a look at Help ->  About Eclipse Platform -> Installation 
> details and turn to the Plug-ins tab.  Type "examples" in the filter.
> There are a great many of them!  Does it make sense for people to
> install examples in their IDE?   Aren't examples meant to be something I
> can easily add to my workspace (File -> New -> Example..) so I can see
> the source and play with it?   Why are examples available for
> installation on the release train?
>
> The following example features are categorized as available for 
> installation.  I believe none of them should be.
>
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.gef4.mvc.examples.source.feature
> .group 
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.gef4.zest.examples.source.featur
> e.group 
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.emf.query.examples.feature.group
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.emf.transaction.examples.feature
> .group 
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.emf.transaction.examples.feature
> .group 
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.emf.validation.examples.feature.
> group org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.gef.examples.feature.group
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.gmf.examples.runtime.feature.gro
> up 
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.graphiti.feature.examples.featur
> e.group 
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.ocl.examples.feature.group
> org.eclipse.equinox.p2.iu/org.eclipse.bpmn2.modeler.examples.feature.g
> roup
>
> In other cases, the project SDK includes a dependency on the examples 
> feature.  I found EMF examples on the train, but I don't believe that 
> EMF itself contributes them, so someone is generously doing that on 
> our behalf.
>
> If you love Eclipse, please give the Eclipse Eierlegende Wollmilchsau 
> some of your love.  Or just ignore it, and accept the fact that 
> Eclipse as a whole is an ugly pig.
>
> Regards,
> Ed
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