Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Europa impressions

[Eric Jodet <jodet.e@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Also,
we may want to be able to track all
europa bugs in Bugzilla.
Did not find corresponding keyword:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/describekeywords.cgi

Regarding the bugs I opens, I currently
"tag" the bug summary with [europa].
Unless we have a common way of tagging
europa bugs, it may become difficult to track down all europa bugs.

Bjorn?

Eric JODET
Developer, Eclipse JDT Core
69, rue de la Vecquerie, 44600 Saint Nazaire
Phone : +33-(0)2 51 16 40 49  / 87 40 49 - Mobile +33-(0)6 70 75 76
83
e-Mail : eric_jodet@xxxxxxxxxx

Eric Jodet/France/IBM

06/01/2007 10:08 PM

To	Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc	Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>, cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject	Re: [cross-project-issues-dev] Europa impressionsLink

Pascal,

as I've been playing with Europa for
a few weeks now, I already noticed most of the problems you pointed out.
I opened some bugs, but I wrongly assumed
that there must be someone, somewhere (or a dedicated team),
testing all the europa features installed
together.

I found that, often, these bugs were
hard to reproduce for the developers in charge,
as, in most cases, they install a single
feature/project on top a base Eclipse.
But not the whole stuff.

If you spend some time  working
(as a Java developer for example) wit a full RC1 Europa, the error log
view and the MS-DOS console are quickly populated with errors / exceptions.
Which, from my end-user perception (and
after a good Eclipse experience) makes me doubt of the configuration stability.
.
I'm confident that each person in charge
of a component performed a lot of "unit" testing, but doubt that,
once these tests completed, it was verified that this feature
was integrating properly in the Europa
picture.
see bug https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=189668
as an example.
Attached is what one can see after installing
europa, and clicking Finish on the Mylar Preference page: [attachment "europa_default_java.JPG"
deleted by Eric Jodet/France/IBM] 
Wow! this make a lot of views.
(right-click on CoronaDemo in the left-hand
Corona Explorer: you'll get an "Unknown Exception" error message)

I already measured and compared startup
times and plugin activation for Europa and Eclipse at M7 level.
For the exact same workspace, same perspective
(default Java:
- Eclipse: 27 plugins, startup time
17 sec (warm startup)
- Europa: 68 plugins, startup time 23
sec (warm startup)  (+
35%) 

As a reminder, I'll quote you:
- Your plug-in is not the most important thing:
      - do not start your plug-in on startup.
      - do not gratuitously put your views in random perspectives
      - do not contribute menus / action sets to all perspectives
      - do not create projects in the workspace on startup.

Workbench startup, UI responsiveness,
clean console, unexpected error messages... as you said Pascal, the list
is so long...
Anything I can do to help improve this
(bad) situation, just let me know.

Eric.

Eric JODET
Developer, Eclipse JDT Core
69, rue de la Vecquerie, 44600 Saint Nazaire
Phone : +33-(0)2 51 16 40 49  / 87 40 49 - Mobile +33-(0)6 70 75 76
83
e-Mail : eric_jodet@xxxxxxxxxx

Pascal Rapicault <Pascal_Rapicault@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: cross-project-issues-dev-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxx

06/01/2007 05:37 PM

Please respond to
Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To	Cross project issues <cross-project-issues-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx>
cc
Subject	[cross-project-issues-dev] Europa impressions

Hello,

I have now installed everything from Europa RC1 and would like to comment
on my impressions.

First startup
-------------
On the first startup, the user experience ended being a nightmare. I
selected a topic in the Welcome screen and it took well over 25 seconds
before the Eclipse Help window appeared, and during this time the UI was
not refreshed and it appeared that Eclipse had frozen.

It turns out the root of this problem is caused by having too many plug-ins
contributing to the UI early startup extension point so they are started
automatically when Eclipse starts. Is it necessary for all of these
plug-ins to be started on every startup? I encourage the plug-in owners
for
these plug-ins to review why they using this extension point, and perhaps
defer their plug-in initialization until later. (see list in attached
screenshot)

Also when I started Eclipse, I was presented with a Mylar dialog welcoming
me to the Mylar project. This was unexpected and perhaps should be
integrated into the Intro page.


Cluttered UI
------------

Now added to the Resource perspective (originally contributed by the
Platform), are a second task list and two IP-XACT views. This is just one
example but it seems like many people are contributing their views to other
people's perspectives. People must be careful when doing this because 1)
it
can end up in places without context and 2) if everyone contributes to
the
same perspective, it can get very cluttered. The same also applies to menu
items, toolbar buttons, etc.

There is a new view called the Task List view contributed by Mylar which
can cause confusion with the Tasks view contributed by the Platform. (note
it appears in multiple perspectives)


Unwanted project
----------------

When I first opened the Resource Perspective, there was already a project
named "JSR-109 Web Services" in my Project Explorer. The first
problem is
that I didn't create this...who did? And why? The second problem is that
the project is unresponsive to standard actions and I am unable to get
a
context menu on the resource. Therefore I can't delete it, etc. So I
thought that I would find the project location and delete it from disk
but
it was not created in the default workspace location. And I cannot find
the
location because the resource properties are unavailable.


Writing to bad locations
------------------------

Upon investigation of the file-system, I discovered that there were
multiple files written to the Eclipse install location, which must be
treated as a read-only location. These files should really be written into
either the workspace metadata directory or the configuration area.
(derby.log, corona*.log, JackRabbitRepositories)

When looking into the workspace directory itself, I see directories created
there that do not have any corresponding projects in my workspace. As a
rule, the workspace directory is owned by the Resource plug-in and it
should be treated as a private area. However, you are able to write into
the .metadata directory and this is probably where these files/folders
should be moved. (.mylar, Eclipse Monkey Examples, Datagraphs, etc)

Upon further inspection, I opened the Navigator view and found some of
those folders/projects. So 1) why are they not present in the Project
EXplorer? 2) why are these projects created for free?


Summary
-------

I have opened bugs for some of these issues and I encourage others to
download and test Europa and do the same. Its only with real integration
testing and use of the product as a whole that we will sort out some of
these issues and get to a point where it looks like Europa is not just
a
bunch of projects thrown together at the last minute.

So here are a few rules to remember, most of which requesting action from
your part. I know it is late but if it is not done now, it will never be.
- Your plug-in is not the most important thing:
      - do not start your plug-in on startup.
      - do not gratuitously put your views in random perspectives
      - do not contribute menus / action sets to all perspectives
      - do not create projects in the workspace on startup.

- Not all folders can be written into
      - do not write into the eclipse install location.
In many cases this
will be marked read only.
      - do not write at the root of the workspace. Write
in the .metadata
folder instead.

- Performance and UI responsiveness
      - http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Performance_Bloopers
      - make sure to run long running operations in the
background using
the jobs API
      - use as much as possible Job API instead of creating
threads


I'm sure I have forgotten things here, this is far from an exhaustive list.
But what I'm getting at is that first impressions mean a lot and we want
users to have a good out-of-the-box experience with Eclipse.

Now you are likely asking "who are you to talk to us like that?".
I'm a
developer who takes pride and care in crafting something that works,
performs and does not look too goofy, and I want to be proud, not ashamed,
by the Europa content.

Thanks for your attention,

PaScaL

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