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Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
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On one hand I understand Chris and Martin's point of view that remote
development is far from covering the challenge of embedded development
and that "remote" by itself can be confusing if people don't already
know what this is about. On the other hand I understand that Samir
doesn't wish to have the discussion limited to embedded as it is
obviously not their area. We are obviously in two different worlds with
some part in common. So what about a title covering both:
Embedded and remote development: interaction with a remote system
Regarding the theme, I think the title says it all and I think a BoF is
the place for everybody to share their experiences, expectations,
questions openly around that subject. I see that as free forum. I am not
sure we need to define more than that, but if you feel we should maybe a
short abstract would be the right place to refine the subject.
Pierre-Alexandre
Recoskie, Chris wrote:
Personally I think that for anyone not directly involved with this
conversation there could be confusion as to what "remote" means. People
might think that we're talking about running Eclipse/CDT with the
debugger process itself or maybe even controlling the IDE running on
another machine. When you say "embedded" development/debug everyone
generally knows what you're talking about.
A large part of the focus of the session is also not just on setting up
a remote connection to the target but to the various requirements of
debugging an embedded system in general, without even thinking about how
one goes about connecting to the target. There is definitely an
intersection between the two topics because embedded systems are usually
remote systems (it's not too often that you're running your IDE on your
remote system but hey, it could happen), but they are not the same.
So, I don't mind changing the name if we come up with something
suitable, but I don't think "CDT Remote Development and Debugging" is
the solution as that loses a lot in translation.
If we want to get together beforehand in a meeting I'm all for it if
people want to. To be clear however, our idea though was to basically
present our material and discuss it at the BOF and give others the
chance to do the same with their own material. We were not planning to
get together and come up with one big unified set of content to then
present jointly at the BOF.
Our thought regarding the theme was "What are the issues participants
are having with using CDT for embedded development, and what could we
start doing to improve things." We can add additional themes if people
wish but that's the theme that we plan on addressing in our presentation
and discussion.
___________________________________________
Chris Recoskie
Software Designer
IDE Frameworks Group
Texas Instruments, Toronto
-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Sebastien Marineau
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:42 AM
To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
Hi Sumit,
Your suggestions are fine by me. TI, Montavista, others -- any
comments?
As for setting up a call -- I can do that. I'm assuming we want to
have
the
others participate as well, so what time would work best for everyone?
Thanks,
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sumit Sarkar
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:42 PM
To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
Hi Sebastien,
Instead of "Embedded Development and Debugging", we like to
call it "CDT Remote Development and Debugging" - the 1st
March BOF. Can we come up with a "BOF theme" - so that the
participants get a "platform"
to discuss about? Like what are the challenges a developer
face when they try to develop on a Remote machine and then
what are the solutions are being currently worked on.
Can we setup a meeting (may be next week) to discuss further
on this BOF?
Thanks,
sumit
On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 15:05:14 -0500, Sebastien Marineau
<sebastien@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Good catch -- that is indeed Tuesday the 28th :-)
So here's where we are at for the BOFs:
Eclipse CDT BOF
Intel (20 min) - Leo Treggiari - Managed Build System
overview Altera
(10-20 mins?) - Tracy Miranda - What Altera has been doing,
discussion on CDT features IBM (20 mins) - John Camelon -
the latest
in cool parsing, and demo of the DOM viewer IBM (20 mins) - Doug -
Demo of IBM C++/UML visualizer (built on CDT) QNX (15 mins) - Dave
Inglis - Debug discussion
Embedded development and debugging
TI (20 mins) -- Chris Recoskie - demo, remote debugging issues
Montavista (20 mins) - Pierre-Alexandre Masse - current status on
remote debug, ideas for the future HP -- Sumit Sarkar - Remote
development?
In terms of other participation, how about WindRiver,
Timesys, Redhat,
Rockwell, others?
Thanks,
Sebastien
-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Pierre-Alexandre
Masse
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 3:44 PM
To: cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
Do you mean it will be a week without Tuesday then?
Just kidding ;)
Pierre-Alexandre
Recoskie, Chris wrote:
2005 isn't a leap year so doing a BOF on the 29^th may
prove difficult
without a flux capacitor
___________________________________________
Chris Recoskie
Software Designer
IDE Frameworks Group
Texas Instruments, Toronto
-----Original Message-----
*From:* cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cdt-dev-admin@xxxxxxxxxxx]
*On Behalf Of *Sebastien Marineau
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2005 5:14 PM
*To:* cdt-dev@xxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [cdt-dev] FW: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
Hi folks,
Concerning the BOFs, I did get information back from the
EclipseCon organizers -- please see the email from
Bjorn further
below. The bottom line is that we have the freedom to
organize our
own
BOFs, as
well as set the schedule.
To get the ball rolling, our original proposal was to hold
2 BOFs, as
listed below.
Eclipse CDT BOF:
Meet the experts and discuss the implementation and
direction of CDT.
The format will likely be a series of mini-overviews on
different
aspects of CDT along with open discussions.Intel, IBM, QNX
and Redhat
have volunteered to present here. We will also try to get a
few
customers to present their experiences.
Remote development and debugging BOF:
TI, HP, Montavista and IBM have expressed strong interest
in hosting
this. The main focus would be on the specific
challenges of using
Eclipse and CDT in a host/target configuration, both for
development
and debugging. This spans the range from deeply
embedded (TI) to
traditional embedded (Mvista) to the server/mini types of
apps (HP and
IBM). I also expect we can get a couple of customers to
participate in
this as well.
My suggestion is to schedule these for the Tuesday and
Wednesday - the
general CDT BOF on Tuesday the 29th, and the remote
development/debugging BOF on Wednesday (March 1st).
As for the content, I do know that additional companies (e.g.
Windriver) have expressed interest in participating, so
maybe we can
start by having everyone throw out what they'd like to
contribute
(discussion topics, mini-presentations, demos etc) and
we'll collect
it into the BOF "program".
Cheers,
Sebastien
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--
--
*From:* Bjorn Freeman-Benson [mailto:bjorn@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 19, 2005 4:21 PM
*To:* 'Dwight Deugo'; sebastien@xxxxxxx
*Subject:* RE: CDT/embedded sessions at EclipseCon
Sebastien,
Please forward this clarification to the CDT mailing
list - thank you.
I, as the EclipseCon Organizing Chair / Final
Arbitrar of All
Things EclipseCon, received a forwarded copy of
this CDT mailing
list and I'd like to take the opportunity to set the
record
straight / clarify the situation...
Hello All,
While working out some issues with my registration
I just got
word from Meeting Strategies Worldwide (they're
doing the
registration etc for EclipseCon) that the
decision on which
BOFs to go with will be made onsite. Yes, you read
that right
- onsite on the day of.
This means that if we want to do a BOF we will have
to submit
our proposals yet again.
Relevant text quoted:
**_I have just received word today that all BoF
submissions
have been neither accepted nor rejected - all BoFs
will now be
decided upon onsite at the conference. An email
will be sent
very soon, to all people who have submitted BoFs
detailing the
process for getting their BoF submitted onsite._**
It might be worthwhile to not rely on the EclipseCon
organizers for this and organize a BOF ourselves -
does anyone
from the Bay area got some meeting space they
could donate?
;^)
We (and by this I mean the Singular We, i.e., me) decided
to
organize the BOFs at EclipseCon 2005 exactly the
same way they
were run at EclipseCon 2004. We made this choice
because it is
organizationally much simpler. Here's how it worked
last year and
here's how it's going to work this year:
* One goal for BOFs is to facilitate the informal
gathering of
similarly interested attendees.
* Another goal for BOFs is to make the process
of gathering
for a BOF as simple as possible for everyone
involved.
* Another goal is to make best use of the
meeting space we
have available. Thus we want to provide the
larger rooms to
the BOFs with more people and the smaller
rooms to those
with fewer people.
* An explicit negative goal for BOFs is to prevent
their being
hijacked by companies using them as
advertising pitches.
Allowing BOFs to be pre-scheduled has, at other
conferences,
allowed them to be taken over by marketing types.
So, here's the process - it's very simple and I think
you'll find
that it easily meets your needs as well our overall goals:
1. At EclipseCon there is a bulletin board. Beside
the bulletin
board are blank sign-up sheets.
2. You arrive at the conference, you go to the
bulletin board,
you take a sign-up sheet and write "CDT" in
the title box.
You thumb tack it on the bulletin board.
3. During the day, interested people sign up on
the sheets on
the board for the BOFs they are interested in.
4. At 5pm, the organizers (that's me or one of the
other
volunteers) looks at the attendance of each
of the BOFs on
the board and assigns them to rooms by writing, in
big
letters, the room name (e.g., Seaside B) on the
page.
5. After enjoying the free food at the reception
that evening,
people wander by the bulletin board to learn
which room
their BOF is assigned to.
This process meets the goals:
* People can decided to meet in a BOF in
advance or at the
last minute. If you want to schedule it in
advance, simple
agree amongst all your colleagues that you are
going to have
a BOF on, say, Tuesday night. Put up a sign-up
sheet,
sign-up, and get assigned a room. The BOF I'm
involved in
(Language Toolkits and Universal IDEs) is doing
exactly that
- see the announcement that Chris Laffra posted to
the
eclipse.eclipsecon newsgroup.
* Simple physical sheets of paper are easy. Without
having to
write any complex programs, they allow us to
easily allocate
rooms by size and they are easy for the people
attending the
conference to sign up on and to read.
* Allocating rooms at 5pm the day-of allows us
to make the
best use of space. There are plenty of rooms,
but some of
them are very small and I'd hate to have to
pre-guess the
size of each BOF. I know I don't know whether CDT
or WTP is
going to draw a larger crowd. This way we will know.
* Not pre-scheduling BOFs prevents vendors from
using them as
advertising rooms because they can't say "come by
room X at
time Y to hear us talk about product Z". It
allows you and
your colleagues to do so, because you are
collectively
agreeing to meet, but it prevents sales
pitches because in
those cases there is no collective agreement - it's
a
one-way communication.
So, by all means, please schedule a CDT BOF. I look
forward to
your having a really great time at the conference, and
I apologize
if this mechanism was not explained to you before.
Mea culpa...
Regards,
Bjorn Freeman-Benson
EclipseCon Organizing Chair
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