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Re: [cdt-debug-dev] StandAlone CDT debugger (was: Debugging native apps) 
> 
> I have to agree with some of the principles that =D8yvind is putting =
> forward, even if not all of his suggestions apply to TI's needs in =
> particular at this moment.  It's not all just about speed.  We also run =
> into the simplicity issue, just not in the same way as =D8yvind.
> 

Ok.

But it is also
 - about speed if starting the debugger or eclipse could be done below 2 seconds,
 - it is about memory, it is  #@*!!# when you need 500M to debug hello_world.
 - it is about multi targets/configuration, if CDT was to only run on Linux and not
   supporting x number of different configurations ... things would
   be simpler ...  much more simpler.
...

[...]

> 
> Right now for an embedded developer to use Eclipse + CDT out of the box =
> untouched you really have to be an Eclipse + CDT + GDB expert to be able =
> to easily figure out what you're doing.

To be an expert with Eclipse + CDT, fine with me, there is always a learning curve.

> untouched you really have to be an Eclipse + CDT + GDB expert to be able =

This I have a problem with, the "+ GDB" part, it was not the goal to let
GDB specifics go through at least not after configurating the launch,
(during the launch configuration the user have to choose a backend debugger,
so a little knowledge, is required).

Oyvind points were not lost here and GDB's personnality did shine through, via
the command line(console), specific preference pages etc..
But not a reqirement to get started.

Do you have specifics on where knowledge of GDB is required ?

> Many of our users barely know =
> what GDB is let alone how to configure it properly for remote debugging. =
>  Admittedly though,  a large part of the difficulty our users encounter =
> has to do with the general usability level of Eclipse and that's a whole =
> other kettle of fish :-P
> 

8-), for the remote debugging, a few ideas will be in place for 3.0, but
we were waiting from Pierre-Alexandre draft proposal on the subject to 
lead the way.  The proposal will give us a layer to isolate CDT from
the specific backends.

But yes, usually it is the newcomers, jumping ship from say Netbeans, VS, etc .. to Eclipse
And you can resume there PRs by "Can you make it be/do like in xxx IDE.."
Not that is invalid, but we may do things differently.

{...}

Yes, to your point, CDT has some usability problems 8-) ... need more time ..


> 
> Personally for us (i.e. TI) in particular I don't think the =
> debugger-only issue is a super critical issue... it's more of a "nice to =
> have someday" type of thing in our minds,

Right, give them a debugger-only and the next request will be ...
How to jump to my function definition by hitting F3 ?
Or can we get outliner working ?

Bringing you back to ... square one.

> and we will always have a need =
> for a full-fledged IDE.  It is however a valid usage model that many =
> people will want to pursue.
> 

Agreed.

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