Home » Newcomers » Newcomers » Getting started docs are VERY poor...
| Getting started docs are VERY poor... [message #523193] |
Thu, 25 March 2010 09:34  |
Eclipse User |
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Folks,
I'm an experienced developer of 25 years, so this isn't a complaint from someone who's generally out of their depth with development or IDEs.
But coming to Eclipse the website and docs while they may represent a lot of work, and maybe excellent for experienced users, are near useless for newcomers.
There is no simple obvious link on the homepage to a doc which answers the most basic questions (and I don't want a long video, I want a quick precise succinct doc that says do this, this and this that I can skim read). Questions like:
How do I install and run Eclipse for the first time?
What other components do I need to make it run?
How do I get my first project up and running?
I've got the Eclipse download I need (I think), unzipped it, and there's only a runtime (not an install package - fair enough, but nowhere is this made clear), and running it produces an error about no JRE or JDK present. Fine, but why wasn't I told this SOMEWHERE OBVIOUS on the site, up front?
What other errors am I going to encounter after I've got those (and which do I need anyway, JRE or JDK, and if so which, and where from?)? And why can't I be told upfront what I will need so Eclipse just works?
Why exactly is coming to Eclipse for the first time just a frustrating, messy trial and error process?
Someone needs to sort this out, and fast. And if the docs are already there, SOMEWHERE on the labarynthine website, then why is there not an OBVIOUS link to them on the front page (and replicated on the downloads page - i.e. 'You've downloaded, now see this for next steps'.)
Honestly, you can tell the whole thing was designed by programmers... 
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| Re: Getting started docs are VERY poor... [message #523214 is a reply to message #523193] |
Thu, 25 March 2010 05:56  |
| Eclipse User |
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On 3/25/2010 7:34 AM, Alex Kerr wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I'm an experienced developer of 25 years, so this isn't a complaint from
> someone who's generally out of their depth with development or IDEs.
>
> But coming to Eclipse the website and docs while they may represent a
> lot of work, and maybe excellent for experienced users, are near useless
> for newcomers.
>
> [snip]
>
> Honestly, you can tell the whole thing was designed by programmers... :(
There are many tutorials. In particular, a few of my own at
http://www.javahotchocolate.com (look down left column) that answer some
of what you ask about. Also, check out Lars Vogel's at
http://www.vogella.de
Then, come back here for questions you have. We aim to please!
Russ Bateman
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| Re: Getting started docs are VERY poor... [message #523270 is a reply to message #523193] |
Thu, 25 March 2010 13:51 |
| Eclipse User |
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Alex Kerr wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I'm an experienced developer of 25 years, so this isn't a complaint from
> someone who's generally out of their depth with development or IDEs.
>
> But coming to Eclipse the website and docs while they may represent a
> lot of work, and maybe excellent for experienced users, are near useless
> for newcomers.
>
> There is no simple obvious link on the homepage to a doc which answers
> the most basic questions (and I don't want a long video, I want a quick
> precise succinct doc that says do this, this and this that I can skim
> read). Questions like:
>
> How do I install and run Eclipse for the first time?
> What other components do I need to make it run?
> How do I get my first project up and running?
I just went to www.eclipse.org and at the top right there's a prominent
button that says "Download Eclipse". I clicked on that and got to
another page that showed me things I could download; at the top right of
that page it says "You will need a Java runtime environment (JRE) to use
Eclipse (Java 5 JRE recommended)" and it has a link to get it. A bit
further down the page there is a prominent box that says "Installing
Eclipse", with links to the FAQ pages on installing Eclipse. I'm not
sure how much more the web developers could do, but if you've got
specific ideas about how the web page design could be improved, please
submit a bug report (against the "Foundation" project).
Keep in mind that Eclipse is not just an IDE, which makes it a bit hard
to direct people to simple download and usage instructions. Eclipse is
also a runtime platform, an application development platform, and a few
other things as well. We don't know a priori what someone coming to the
Eclipse web site wants to get.
As for how to get your first project up and running - well, are you
using Eclipse as a Java IDE? C/C++? SQL? PHP? JSP? Again, because
it's different things to different people, I'm not sure how that
information could be provided more easily. The "Welcome" page that you
see when you first launch Eclipse is an attempt to help with that
(insofar as it changes depending on what Eclipse features you've chosen
to install); if you found that it was not helpful, again, please file a
specific bug report about how it could have been improved.
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| Re: Getting started docs are VERY poor... [message #523316 is a reply to message #523270] |
Thu, 25 March 2010 16:46 |
| Eclipse User |
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On 3/25/10 1:51 PM, Walter Harley wrote:
> Alex Kerr wrote:
>> Folks,
>>
>> I'm an experienced developer of 25 years, so this isn't a complaint
>> from someone who's generally out of their depth with development or IDEs.
>>
>> But coming to Eclipse the website and docs while they may represent a
>> lot of work, and maybe excellent for experienced users, are near
>> useless for newcomers.
>>
>> There is no simple obvious link on the homepage to a doc which answers
>> the most basic questions (and I don't want a long video, I want a
>> quick precise succinct doc that says do this, this and this that I can
>> skim read). Questions like:
>>
>> How do I install and run Eclipse for the first time?
>> What other components do I need to make it run?
>> How do I get my first project up and running?
>
> I just went to www.eclipse.org and at the top right there's a prominent
> button that says "Download Eclipse". I clicked on that and got to
> another page that showed me things I could download; at the top right of
> that page it says "You will need a Java runtime environment (JRE) to use
> Eclipse (Java 5 JRE recommended)" and it has a link to get it. A bit
> further down the page there is a prominent box that says "Installing
> Eclipse", with links to the FAQ pages on installing Eclipse. I'm not
> sure how much more the web developers could do, but if you've got
> specific ideas about how the web page design could be improved, please
> submit a bug report (against the "Foundation" project).
>
> Keep in mind that Eclipse is not just an IDE, which makes it a bit hard
> to direct people to simple download and usage instructions. Eclipse is
> also a runtime platform, an application development platform, and a few
> other things as well. We don't know a priori what someone coming to the
> Eclipse web site wants to get.
>
> As for how to get your first project up and running - well, are you
> using Eclipse as a Java IDE? C/C++? SQL? PHP? JSP? Again, because it's
> different things to different people, I'm not sure how that information
> could be provided more easily. The "Welcome" page that you see when you
> first launch Eclipse is an attempt to help with that (insofar as it
> changes depending on what Eclipse features you've chosen to install); if
> you found that it was not helpful, again, please file a specific bug
> report about how it could have been improved.
When you've got Eclipse running, open the Help contents and look for the
various Getting Started sub-sections; they contain tutorials that will
guide you through the "newbie" learning curve.
Eric
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