Home » Eclipse Projects » Eclipse Platform » General IDE slowdown and cleanliness
| General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324612] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 06:54  |
Eclipse User |
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Good morning,
First, I would like to state that Eclipse is one of the best IDE(s) /
platforms that I have worked with over the course of my many years of
development and absolutely love the platform.
Having said that, we have a small development team building a Web
application and have found that over time the IDE tends to slow down in many
regards (build, launch, editors, etc). This is expected as the application
grows in size but a large part of this can be related to the platform
itself.
Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed / updated,
it has a negative impact on the performance of the platform. This can be
evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we started with a clean IDE
environment and just recently went to a clean environment again (fresh
install, including plugins) and the environment has become much snappier
(albeit an over the should stop watch approach, but significant
nonetheless). I can only assume that this is related to artifacts that tend
to accumulate in the system itself that causes this performance degradation.
I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going to
assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has not been
what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact that a large
number of our plugins and settings have to be reconfigured (we do have a
separate extension point for plugins, but have found that it was not a
seamless procedure to bring these forward). It has been a few days and we
are still trying to configure our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set,
with some of them just not functioning as before.
Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
Any thoughts.?
BTW: In no way is this meant to start a religious rant / flame war, just
wanted to highlight some of our "real" experiences in an effort to improve
the situation which I am sure other people are experiencing.
Whatty
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324617 is a reply to message #324612] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 07:17  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com
Steve,
Comments below.
Steve Whatmore wrote:
> Good morning,
>
> First, I would like to state that Eclipse is one of the best IDE(s) /
> platforms that I have worked with over the course of my many years of
> development and absolutely love the platform.
>
Yes, along with vi plugin to pamper my long term dependency, it's hard
to beat
> Having said that, we have a small development team building a Web
> application and have found that over time the IDE tends to slow down in many
> regards (build, launch, editors, etc). This is expected as the application
> grows in size but a large part of this can be related to the platform
> itself.
>
Is this perhaps more a WTP question/issue than a platform one?
> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed / updated,
> it has a negative impact on the performance of the platform. This can be
> evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we started with a clean IDE
> environment and just recently went to a clean environment again (fresh
> install, including plugins) and the environment has become much snappier
> (albeit an over the should stop watch approach, but significant
> nonetheless). I can only assume that this is related to artifacts that tend
> to accumulate in the system itself that causes this performance degradation.
>
It might well be. Personally I'm always getting new ones because I need
to track the development stream. It's not clear though how much of your
issue comes from what's accumulated in the workspace verses what's
accumulated in the configuration. If you use a new workspace with the
existing configuration, does that still seem to have gotten more sluggish?
> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going to
> assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>
I wouldn't assume that. I'm not aware of any known issues with the
configuration itself growing slower over time. (Even simple
fragmenting in the file system itself at the OS level could cause
slowness; speaking of which, I think I need to defragment my disk again.)
> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has not been
> what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact that a large
> number of our plugins and settings have to be reconfigured (we do have a
> separate extension point for plugins, but have found that it was not a
> seamless procedure to bring these forward).
Generally I export all my preferences and then import them. It's a
little annoying because some preference point at physical things that
depend on the install location, so I end up scanning the preference file
looking for such hard coded dependencies and deleting them textually.
Generally the result makes me happy since I will install new eclipses
sometime several times per month.
> It has been a few days and we
> are still trying to configure our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set,
> with some of them just not functioning as before.
>
That sucks. Doesn't exporting preferences work for these?
> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>
I'm a little frustrated that most projects don't contribute categories
for their preferences, so it's hard to selectively deal with them as a
big whack of all of them crammed together. But then, I'm not sure if
you've tried this approach?
> Any thoughts.?
>
> BTW: In no way is this meant to start a religious rant / flame war, just
> wanted to highlight some of our "real" experiences in an effort to improve
> the situation which I am sure other people are experiencing.
>
Your positive comments at the beginning made that clear. The old
"butter'm up before you bash'm approach", or what an old friend used to
call "damning with faint praise". When you have a good thing, of course
you want it to be better...
> Whatty
>
>
>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324636 is a reply to message #324612] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 14:25 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: wharley.bea.com
"Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed /
> updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the platform. This
> can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we started with a clean IDE
> environment and just recently went to a clean environment again (fresh
> install, including plugins) and the environment has become much snappier
> (albeit an over the should stop watch approach, but significant
> nonetheless). I can only assume that this is related to artifacts that
> tend to accumulate in the system itself that causes this performance
> degradation.
>
> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going to
> assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks on this
list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse component (basically
the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all of Eclipse" by that term,
including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps other components as well. The
distinction is important because you may get different answers from people
using different components.
As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its other
dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I haven't noticed
any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in workspaces that I've had
in continuous development for several years. Just one data point.
The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes don't cause
performance degradation; you can see those results linked to from the
downloads page. However, of course, those apply only to fresh installs, not
to installs that have been used over time, which is the scenario you're
discussing. I mention this simply to clarify a possible point of confusion.
> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has not
> been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact that a
> large number of our plugins and settings have to be reconfigured (we do
> have a separate extension point for plugins, but have found that it was
> not a seamless procedure to bring these forward). It has been a few days
> and we are still trying to configure our new and snappier IDE with our
> plugin set, with some of them just not functioning as before.
>
> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're talking about
the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about third-party plug-ins you've
added, or about plug-in projects that you're developing.
Thanks,
-Walter Harley
JDT APT team
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324638 is a reply to message #324636] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 15:22 |
| Eclipse User |
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Just another data point here - I have a Toshiba laptop (3GHz P4, 1.5 GB
RAM) on which Eclipse starts lightning fast the very first time I run a
new install. After that it is dog slow every time. This is the only
machine I have that behaves this way but I can literally go get lunch
and it *might* be started up when I get back. Sometimes not so much.
Using the network to do something else seems to kick it in the tail
sometimes but that's not consistent either. Once it starts it works as
well as any other system I use. This has been going on since I bought
the machine in the 3.1 time frame. The fact that any machine acts that
way makes me hesitate to distribute Eclipse based product to pedestrian
users. Fortunately for now I can build the things I need to distribute
as SWT/JFace applications. Those launch without any hesitation issues
beyond Java's own.
Now I suppose I need to go try again to track down the start up troubles
and either fix whatever is wrong with the Toshiba configuration or get
enough good data to open a bug.
-
Steve
Walter Harley wrote:
> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
> news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed /
>> updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the platform. This
>> can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we started with a clean IDE
>> environment and just recently went to a clean environment again (fresh
>> install, including plugins) and the environment has become much snappier
>> (albeit an over the should stop watch approach, but significant
>> nonetheless). I can only assume that this is related to artifacts that
>> tend to accumulate in the system itself that causes this performance
>> degradation.
>>
>> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going to
>> assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>
> As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks on this
> list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse component (basically
> the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all of Eclipse" by that term,
> including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps other components as well. The
> distinction is important because you may get different answers from people
> using different components.
>
> As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its other
> dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I haven't noticed
> any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in workspaces that I've had
> in continuous development for several years. Just one data point.
>
> The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
> performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes don't cause
> performance degradation; you can see those results linked to from the
> downloads page. However, of course, those apply only to fresh installs, not
> to installs that have been used over time, which is the scenario you're
> discussing. I mention this simply to clarify a possible point of confusion.
>
>
>> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has not
>> been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact that a
>> large number of our plugins and settings have to be reconfigured (we do
>> have a separate extension point for plugins, but have found that it was
>> not a seamless procedure to bring these forward). It has been a few days
>> and we are still trying to configure our new and snappier IDE with our
>> plugin set, with some of them just not functioning as before.
>>
>> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>
> Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're talking about
> the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about third-party plug-ins you've
> added, or about plug-in projects that you're developing.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Walter Harley
> JDT APT team
>
>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324639 is a reply to message #324638] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 15:28 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com
Steve,
What else do you have installed? It sounds like a network time out
kind of problems. Might you have documents that are validated be
schemas loaded from the network?
Steve Blass wrote:
> Just another data point here - I have a Toshiba laptop (3GHz P4, 1.5
> GB RAM) on which Eclipse starts lightning fast the very first time I
> run a new install. After that it is dog slow every time. This is the
> only machine I have that behaves this way but I can literally go get
> lunch and it *might* be started up when I get back. Sometimes not so
> much. Using the network to do something else seems to kick it in the
> tail sometimes but that's not consistent either. Once it starts it
> works as well as any other system I use. This has been going on since
> I bought the machine in the 3.1 time frame. The fact that any machine
> acts that way makes me hesitate to distribute Eclipse based product to
> pedestrian users. Fortunately for now I can build the things I need
> to distribute as SWT/JFace applications. Those launch without any
> hesitation issues beyond Java's own.
>
> Now I suppose I need to go try again to track down the start up
> troubles and either fix whatever is wrong with the Toshiba
> configuration or get enough good data to open a bug.
>
> -
> Steve
>
>
> Walter Harley wrote:
>> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
>> news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed /
>>> updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the
>>> platform. This can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we
>>> started with a clean IDE environment and just recently went to a
>>> clean environment again (fresh install, including plugins) and the
>>> environment has become much snappier (albeit an over the should stop
>>> watch approach, but significant nonetheless). I can only assume that
>>> this is related to artifacts that tend to accumulate in the system
>>> itself that causes this performance degradation.
>>>
>>> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going
>>> to assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>>
>> As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks
>> on this list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse
>> component (basically the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all of
>> Eclipse" by that term, including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps other
>> components as well. The distinction is important because you may get
>> different answers from people using different components.
>>
>> As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its other
>> dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I haven't
>> noticed any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in workspaces
>> that I've had in continuous development for several years. Just one
>> data point.
>>
>> The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
>> performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes don't
>> cause performance degradation; you can see those results linked to
>> from the downloads page. However, of course, those apply only to
>> fresh installs, not to installs that have been used over time, which
>> is the scenario you're discussing. I mention this simply to clarify
>> a possible point of confusion.
>>
>>
>>> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has
>>> not been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact
>>> that a large number of our plugins and settings have to be
>>> reconfigured (we do have a separate extension point for plugins, but
>>> have found that it was not a seamless procedure to bring these
>>> forward). It has been a few days and we are still trying to
>>> configure our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set, with some of
>>> them just not functioning as before.
>>>
>>> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>>
>> Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're talking
>> about the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about third-party plug-ins
>> you've added, or about plug-in projects that you're developing.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Walter Harley
>> JDT APT team
>>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324640 is a reply to message #324639] |
Tue, 29 January 2008 15:59 |
| Eclipse User |
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I got the same behavior when I installed 3.4M4 Platform SDK before I
added anything else. I'll do some digging to sort it out now that I
mentioned it.
Ed Merks wrote:
> Steve,
>
> What else do you have installed? It sounds like a network time out
> kind of problems. Might you have documents that are validated be
> schemas loaded from the network?
>
>
> Steve Blass wrote:
>> Just another data point here - I have a Toshiba laptop (3GHz P4, 1.5
>> GB RAM) on which Eclipse starts lightning fast the very first time I
>> run a new install. After that it is dog slow every time. This is the
>> only machine I have that behaves this way but I can literally go get
>> lunch and it *might* be started up when I get back. Sometimes not so
>> much. Using the network to do something else seems to kick it in the
>> tail sometimes but that's not consistent either. Once it starts it
>> works as well as any other system I use. This has been going on since
>> I bought the machine in the 3.1 time frame. The fact that any machine
>> acts that way makes me hesitate to distribute Eclipse based product to
>> pedestrian users. Fortunately for now I can build the things I need
>> to distribute as SWT/JFace applications. Those launch without any
>> hesitation issues beyond Java's own.
>>
>> Now I suppose I need to go try again to track down the start up
>> troubles and either fix whatever is wrong with the Toshiba
>> configuration or get enough good data to open a bug.
>>
>> -
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Walter Harley wrote:
>>> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed /
>>>> updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the
>>>> platform. This can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we
>>>> started with a clean IDE environment and just recently went to a
>>>> clean environment again (fresh install, including plugins) and the
>>>> environment has become much snappier (albeit an over the should stop
>>>> watch approach, but significant nonetheless). I can only assume that
>>>> this is related to artifacts that tend to accumulate in the system
>>>> itself that causes this performance degradation.
>>>>
>>>> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going
>>>> to assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>>>
>>> As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks
>>> on this list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse
>>> component (basically the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all of
>>> Eclipse" by that term, including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps other
>>> components as well. The distinction is important because you may get
>>> different answers from people using different components.
>>>
>>> As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its other
>>> dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I haven't
>>> noticed any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in workspaces
>>> that I've had in continuous development for several years. Just one
>>> data point.
>>>
>>> The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
>>> performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes don't
>>> cause performance degradation; you can see those results linked to
>>> from the downloads page. However, of course, those apply only to
>>> fresh installs, not to installs that have been used over time, which
>>> is the scenario you're discussing. I mention this simply to clarify
>>> a possible point of confusion.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has
>>>> not been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact
>>>> that a large number of our plugins and settings have to be
>>>> reconfigured (we do have a separate extension point for plugins, but
>>>> have found that it was not a seamless procedure to bring these
>>>> forward). It has been a few days and we are still trying to
>>>> configure our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set, with some of
>>>> them just not functioning as before.
>>>>
>>>> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>>>
>>> Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're talking
>>> about the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about third-party plug-ins
>>> you've added, or about plug-in projects that you're developing.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Walter Harley
>>> JDT APT team
>>>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324700 is a reply to message #324640] |
Wed, 30 January 2008 15:22 |
| Eclipse User |
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First of all thanks for the responses.
1) Plug-ins
I purposely install any plugs-in into their own extension point (based
on a article I read a while back) where I should be able to update the base
Eclipse environment (ie. 3.2 -> 3.3) and just point it at the extension
point to get all my installed plug-ins. This to a certain degree works but I
find various differences between the old environment and the updated
environment. I am not sure why this is but is not what I expected.
I utilize a number of plugins such as PMD, Subversion,
ResourceBundleEditor, etc and the hope was that once I update the base
Eclipse environment it would not be a difficult process to bring this
plugins forward, but again given that this process is not seamless it has
proven more difficult than expected.
2) As too general slow-down.
Once I update the base environment, it seems for whatever reason that IDE
becomes much more responsive. I can run two parallel environments the
original install that I have been working with over the course of the last
several months and the clean install (essentially the same version installed
into a new directory). The two versions definitely perform at a much
different level, with the newer install generally being much snappier. This
is why I am lead to believe (given all else being equal, ie. network,
projects, etc) that there are some artifacts being created in the normal
course of working with the IDE that has a negative impact on the performance
of the IDE.
I hope this provides further clarification as too the root of some of my
experiences.
Whatty
"Steve Blass" <sblass@acm.org> wrote in message
news:fno43q$q70$1@build.eclipse.org...
>I got the same behavior when I installed 3.4M4 Platform SDK before I added
>anything else. I'll do some digging to sort it out now that I mentioned
>it.
>
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> What else do you have installed? It sounds like a network time out kind
>> of problems. Might you have documents that are validated be schemas
>> loaded from the network?
>>
>>
>> Steve Blass wrote:
>>> Just another data point here - I have a Toshiba laptop (3GHz P4, 1.5 GB
>>> RAM) on which Eclipse starts lightning fast the very first time I run a
>>> new install. After that it is dog slow every time. This is the only
>>> machine I have that behaves this way but I can literally go get lunch
>>> and it *might* be started up when I get back. Sometimes not so much.
>>> Using the network to do something else seems to kick it in the tail
>>> sometimes but that's not consistent either. Once it starts it works as
>>> well as any other system I use. This has been going on since I bought
>>> the machine in the 3.1 time frame. The fact that any machine acts that
>>> way makes me hesitate to distribute Eclipse based product to pedestrian
>>> users. Fortunately for now I can build the things I need to distribute
>>> as SWT/JFace applications. Those launch without any hesitation issues
>>> beyond Java's own.
>>>
>>> Now I suppose I need to go try again to track down the start up troubles
>>> and either fix whatever is wrong with the Toshiba configuration or get
>>> enough good data to open a bug.
>>>
>>> -
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> Walter Harley wrote:
>>>> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>>> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed /
>>>>> updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the platform.
>>>>> This can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we started with a
>>>>> clean IDE environment and just recently went to a clean environment
>>>>> again (fresh install, including plugins) and the environment has
>>>>> become much snappier (albeit an over the should stop watch approach,
>>>>> but significant nonetheless). I can only assume that this is related
>>>>> to artifacts that tend to accumulate in the system itself that causes
>>>>> this performance degradation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going
>>>>> to assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>>>>
>>>> As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks on
>>>> this list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse component
>>>> (basically the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all of Eclipse" by
>>>> that term, including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps other components as
>>>> well. The distinction is important because you may get different
>>>> answers from people using different components.
>>>>
>>>> As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its other
>>>> dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I haven't
>>>> noticed any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in workspaces
>>>> that I've had in continuous development for several years. Just one
>>>> data point.
>>>>
>>>> The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
>>>> performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes don't
>>>> cause performance degradation; you can see those results linked to from
>>>> the downloads page. However, of course, those apply only to fresh
>>>> installs, not to installs that have been used over time, which is the
>>>> scenario you're discussing. I mention this simply to clarify a
>>>> possible point of confusion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has
>>>>> not been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact
>>>>> that a large number of our plugins and settings have to be
>>>>> reconfigured (we do have a separate extension point for plugins, but
>>>>> have found that it was not a seamless procedure to bring these
>>>>> forward). It has been a few days and we are still trying to configure
>>>>> our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set, with some of them just
>>>>> not functioning as before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>>>>
>>>> Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're talking
>>>> about the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about third-party plug-ins
>>>> you've added, or about plug-in projects that you're developing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> -Walter Harley
>>>> JDT APT team
>>>>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324704 is a reply to message #324700] |
Wed, 30 January 2008 16:22 |
| Eclipse User |
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|
Originally posted by: wharley.bea.com
"Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
news:fnqmb9$kti$1@build.eclipse.org...
> I purposely install any plugs-in into their own extension point (based
> on a article I read a while back) where I should be able to update the
> base Eclipse environment (ie. 3.2 -> 3.3) and just point it at the
> extension point to get all my installed plug-ins. This to a certain degree
> works but I find various differences between the old environment and the
> updated environment. I am not sure why this is but is not what I expected.
I think you're using "extension point" to mean something different than what
it usually means in the Eclipse context. Mostly that term refers to a
declarative means of providing specific functionality, that plug-ins declare
and use via their plugin.xml files. For instance,
"org.eclipse.ui.propertyPages" is the extension point that plug-ins use to
declare property pages.
I think you're describing what would more commonly be called an "extension
location".
Not trying to criticize, just trying to clarify a possible confusion, and
help anyone who's trying to Google these terms.
> Once I update the base environment, it seems for whatever reason that IDE
> becomes much more responsive. I can run two parallel environments the
> original install that I have been working with over the course of the last
> several months and the clean install (essentially the same version
> installed into a new directory). The two versions definitely perform at a
> much different level, with the newer install generally being much
> snappier. This is why I am lead to believe (given all else being equal,
> ie. network, projects, etc) that there are some artifacts being created in
> the normal course of working with the IDE that has a negative impact on
> the performance of the IDE.
That's a nice way to do the experiment, and seems quite relevant. It's hard
to say how to take it the next step, into figuring out where the bug might
lie.
I'm guessing that the important thing that happens when you update the base
environment is that any plug-in caches and installation metadata get
replaced. You might try simulating this, in a currently-slow install, by
removing the eclipse/configuration directory in that install (or using
command-line or .ini options to specify a different configuration directory
location). Back it up first! If that makes it speed up, you could further
pursue by removing only individual subfolders of that directory.
Thanks! Input of this sort is valuable.
-walter
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324748 is a reply to message #324704] |
Thu, 31 January 2008 10:42 |
| Eclipse User |
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You are correct what I am referring to is an extension location.
"Walter Harley" <wharley@bea.com> wrote in message
news:fnqpr4$g0s$1@build.eclipse.org...
> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
> news:fnqmb9$kti$1@build.eclipse.org...
>> I purposely install any plugs-in into their own extension point (based
>> on a article I read a while back) where I should be able to update the
>> base Eclipse environment (ie. 3.2 -> 3.3) and just point it at the
>> extension point to get all my installed plug-ins. This to a certain
>> degree works but I find various differences between the old environment
>> and the updated environment. I am not sure why this is but is not what I
>> expected.
>
> I think you're using "extension point" to mean something different than
> what it usually means in the Eclipse context. Mostly that term refers to
> a declarative means of providing specific functionality, that plug-ins
> declare and use via their plugin.xml files. For instance,
> "org.eclipse.ui.propertyPages" is the extension point that plug-ins use to
> declare property pages.
>
> I think you're describing what would more commonly be called an "extension
> location".
>
> Not trying to criticize, just trying to clarify a possible confusion, and
> help anyone who's trying to Google these terms.
>
>
>> Once I update the base environment, it seems for whatever reason that IDE
>> becomes much more responsive. I can run two parallel environments the
>> original install that I have been working with over the course of the
>> last several months and the clean install (essentially the same version
>> installed into a new directory). The two versions definitely perform at a
>> much different level, with the newer install generally being much
>> snappier. This is why I am lead to believe (given all else being equal,
>> ie. network, projects, etc) that there are some artifacts being created
>> in the normal course of working with the IDE that has a negative impact
>> on the performance of the IDE.
>
> That's a nice way to do the experiment, and seems quite relevant. It's
> hard to say how to take it the next step, into figuring out where the bug
> might lie.
>
> I'm guessing that the important thing that happens when you update the
> base environment is that any plug-in caches and installation metadata get
> replaced. You might try simulating this, in a currently-slow install, by
> removing the eclipse/configuration directory in that install (or using
> command-line or .ini options to specify a different configuration
> directory location). Back it up first! If that makes it speed up, you
> could further pursue by removing only individual subfolders of that
> directory.
>
> Thanks! Input of this sort is valuable.
>
> -walter
>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324756 is a reply to message #324639] |
Thu, 31 January 2008 11:36 |
| Eclipse User |
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It wasn't network time outs but on-access virus scanner settings that
had been making Eclipse start slow for me on that one PC. Updating to
the newest AV software engine and adjusting settings has sped things up
incredibly. D'Oh!
-
Steve
Ed Merks wrote:
> Steve,
>
> What else do you have installed? It sounds like a network time out
> kind of problems. Might you have documents that are validated be
> schemas loaded from the network?
>
>
> Steve Blass wrote:
>> Just another data point here - I have a Toshiba laptop (3GHz P4, 1.5
>> GB RAM) on which Eclipse starts lightning fast the very first time I
>> run a new install. After that it is dog slow every time. This is the
>> only machine I have that behaves this way but I can literally go get
>> lunch and it *might* be started up when I get back. Sometimes not so
>> much. Using the network to do something else seems to kick it in the
>> tail sometimes but that's not consistent either. Once it starts it
>> works as well as any other system I use. This has been going on since
>> I bought the machine in the 3.1 time frame. The fact that any machine
>> acts that way makes me hesitate to distribute Eclipse based product to
>> pedestrian users. Fortunately for now I can build the things I need
>> to distribute as SWT/JFace applications. Those launch without any
>> hesitation issues beyond Java's own.
>>
>> Now I suppose I need to go try again to track down the start up
>> troubles and either fix whatever is wrong with the Toshiba
>> configuration or get enough good data to open a bug.
>>
>> -
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Walter Harley wrote:
>>> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed /
>>>> updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the
>>>> platform. This can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we
>>>> started with a clean IDE environment and just recently went to a
>>>> clean environment again (fresh install, including plugins) and the
>>>> environment has become much snappier (albeit an over the should stop
>>>> watch approach, but significant nonetheless). I can only assume that
>>>> this is related to artifacts that tend to accumulate in the system
>>>> itself that causes this performance degradation.
>>>>
>>>> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am going
>>>> to assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>>>
>>> As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks
>>> on this list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse
>>> component (basically the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all of
>>> Eclipse" by that term, including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps other
>>> components as well. The distinction is important because you may get
>>> different answers from people using different components.
>>>
>>> As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its other
>>> dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I haven't
>>> noticed any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in workspaces
>>> that I've had in continuous development for several years. Just one
>>> data point.
>>>
>>> The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
>>> performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes don't
>>> cause performance degradation; you can see those results linked to
>>> from the downloads page. However, of course, those apply only to
>>> fresh installs, not to installs that have been used over time, which
>>> is the scenario you're discussing. I mention this simply to clarify
>>> a possible point of confusion.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins) has
>>>> not been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the fact
>>>> that a large number of our plugins and settings have to be
>>>> reconfigured (we do have a separate extension point for plugins, but
>>>> have found that it was not a seamless procedure to bring these
>>>> forward). It has been a few days and we are still trying to
>>>> configure our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set, with some of
>>>> them just not functioning as before.
>>>>
>>>> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>>>
>>> Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're talking
>>> about the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about third-party plug-ins
>>> you've added, or about plug-in projects that you're developing.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Walter Harley
>>> JDT APT team
>>>
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| Re: General IDE slowdown and cleanliness [message #324760 is a reply to message #324756] |
Thu, 31 January 2008 12:02 |
| Eclipse User |
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|
Originally posted by: merks.ca.ibm.com
Steve,
Not only do we answer questions, we take confessions and absolve
transgressions. :-P
Steve Blass wrote:
> It wasn't network time outs but on-access virus scanner settings that
> had been making Eclipse start slow for me on that one PC. Updating to
> the newest AV software engine and adjusting settings has sped things
> up incredibly. D'Oh!
> -
> Steve
>
>
> Ed Merks wrote:
>> Steve,
>>
>> What else do you have installed? It sounds like a network time out
>> kind of problems. Might you have documents that are validated be
>> schemas loaded from the network?
>>
>>
>> Steve Blass wrote:
>>> Just another data point here - I have a Toshiba laptop (3GHz P4, 1.5
>>> GB RAM) on which Eclipse starts lightning fast the very first time I
>>> run a new install. After that it is dog slow every time. This is
>>> the only machine I have that behaves this way but I can literally go
>>> get lunch and it *might* be started up when I get back. Sometimes
>>> not so much. Using the network to do something else seems to kick it
>>> in the tail sometimes but that's not consistent either. Once it
>>> starts it works as well as any other system I use. This has been
>>> going on since I bought the machine in the 3.1 time frame. The fact
>>> that any machine acts that way makes me hesitate to distribute
>>> Eclipse based product to pedestrian users. Fortunately for now I
>>> can build the things I need to distribute as SWT/JFace
>>> applications. Those launch without any hesitation issues beyond
>>> Java's own.
>>>
>>> Now I suppose I need to go try again to track down the start up
>>> troubles and either fix whatever is wrong with the Toshiba
>>> configuration or get enough good data to open a bug.
>>>
>>> -
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> Walter Harley wrote:
>>>> "Steve Whatmore" <steven.whatmore@lynxdev.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:fnn45r$fd4$1@build.eclipse.org...
>>>>> Over time as the platform evolves and plugins are added / removed
>>>>> / updated, it has a negative impact on the performance of the
>>>>> platform. This can be evidenced by the fact that 4 months ago we
>>>>> started with a clean IDE environment and just recently went to a
>>>>> clean environment again (fresh install, including plugins) and the
>>>>> environment has become much snappier (albeit an over the should
>>>>> stop watch approach, but significant nonetheless). I can only
>>>>> assume that this is related to artifacts that tend to accumulate
>>>>> in the system itself that causes this performance degradation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess my question is, has anyone else experienced this (I am
>>>>> going to assume yes) and is anyone looking at this?
>>>>
>>>> As Ed pointed out, "platform" is a little ambiguous here. To folks
>>>> on this list, "platform" just refers to a particular Eclipse
>>>> component (basically the IDE framework), but I think you mean "all
>>>> of Eclipse" by that term, including WTP, PDE, JDT, and perhaps
>>>> other components as well. The distinction is important because you
>>>> may get different answers from people using different components.
>>>>
>>>> As a Java developer only, I use JDT and PDE, but not WTP or its
>>>> other dependencies. I also don't have any third-party plugins. I
>>>> haven't noticed any slowdown in IDE performance over time, even in
>>>> workspaces that I've had in continuous development for several
>>>> years. Just one data point.
>>>>
>>>> The Eclipse platform (including JDT and PDE) gets regular automated
>>>> performance testing, to ensure that new features and bug fixes
>>>> don't cause performance degradation; you can see those results
>>>> linked to from the downloads page. However, of course, those apply
>>>> only to fresh installs, not to installs that have been used over
>>>> time, which is the scenario you're discussing. I mention this
>>>> simply to clarify a possible point of confusion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, the refresh of our environment (including plugins)
>>>>> has not been what I would consider a painless procedure due to the
>>>>> fact that a large number of our plugins and settings have to be
>>>>> reconfigured (we do have a separate extension point for plugins,
>>>>> but have found that it was not a seamless procedure to bring these
>>>>> forward). It has been a few days and we are still trying to
>>>>> configure our new and snappier IDE with our plugin set, with some
>>>>> of them just not functioning as before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, why is this such a painful procedure?
>>>>
>>>> Can you be a bit more specific? I'm not clear whether you're
>>>> talking about the plug-ins that came with Eclipse, about
>>>> third-party plug-ins you've added, or about plug-in projects that
>>>> you're developing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> -Walter Harley
>>>> JDT APT team
>>>>
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