Home » Language IDEs » ServerTools (WTP) » Rich Internet Application
| Rich Internet Application [message #21042] |
Mon, 03 May 2004 17:50  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: xjzhang78.hotmail.com
I find most developers in this newsgroup only focus their eyes in the server
side technologies. However it is also important to innovate the browser side
techs to improve users' experiences. HTML could not longer satisfy such a
demand. Maybe we should choose Flash or SVG as a language to develop browser
side apps, so called "Rich Internet Application". It can simplify the
development of both browser side and server side apps. HTML layout is really
not an easy issue for developers. So why not focusing on SVG to build a
WYSIWYG IDE for it.
I have done some work in this issue, in fact I have developed such a plugin,
called "SVG Widget Framework Plug-in". It has won a prize in the
"Internation Challenge for Eclipse". Of course, it is still in its very
begining level. But we can improve it and make it a powerful tool. For
example adding the JavaScript debug feature into it etc. You can find more
details in my web site: http://www.openvue.net/projects.php. Anyways, I
would like to participate in the Eclipse Web Tools Platform Project
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| Proposal of SVG Plug-in [message #22386 is a reply to message #22128] |
Tue, 11 May 2004 16:40  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: xjzhang78.hotmail.com
Proposal of SVG Plug-in
1.Background
Although there are many well-designed frameworks, developing a stable,
easy-to-maintain and personalized web application is still a big challenge
for developers. Where is the problem? I don't think the frameworks, such as
Struts, Spring,Maverick,Hibernate etc, are not good enough. Their
archetectures all sound reasonable. But when you put them into practice, you
will find them difficult to tame. They are all based on MVC/Model 2
archetecture. I should say the "View" is the weakest section in all these
framework. I do not think HTML could be a suitable format for the GUI of web
applications, although it would still be the first choice for a long time.
Let's look into its shortcomings:
(1)The bigest problem of HTML should be its layout strategy. It heavily
relies on Tables. In order to render interface elements properly, you should
put a lot of efforts to carefully design the Tables. In most cases, it is
beyond the capacity of a developer. Moreover, to make application developers
and HTML web designers understand each others and cooperate smoothly is
never so easy.
(2)The capacity to generate dynamical HTML elements is very limited and not
easy to control.
(3)HTML is a stateless language, all middle states should be transfered
between servers and browsers with GET/POST. Network timeout problems may
lose all the middle state data, it is really annoying for users to enter
them again and again. Moreover it could also cause security problems.
(4)Personalizing a HTML web application is difficult. Maybe a lot of images
would be helpful, but it will cause a web application to be slow.
For those reasons, I think a more powerful browser side language is
necessary. Flash and SVG could be taken into account
2.Flash or SVG
Macromedia brings us a new term "Rich Internet Application" or RIA when it
announces its new product Flash MX. Of course, we should not consider it as
a new conception. Even several years ago, Sun's Java Applet could do the
same thing, certainly with more efforts. Unfortunately, for Java Applet's
long load time, big footprint and bad supports of Microsoft, it could not be
a widely accepted solution for RIA. Flash MX seems the best choice.However
Its overall developer environment is still focused toward animation
development. The program uses a score in which you add cast members within a
timeline - a method used for traditional animation. But linear
timeline-based development just doesn't make sense in an application
environment. Moreover the standard SWF is completely controled by
Macromedia, it is not so good for an open source project.
So why not SVG(Scalable Vector Graphics)? SVG could be another choice for
RIA. It is a XML based 2D vector graphics open standard, under development
by the W3C. It has some unique advantages, such as homan-readable format,
manipulation of graphics elements via DOM, full supports of JavaScript and
even Java ect. In the point of a developer, it is really great.
Unfortunately, an IDE (Integrated Development Envirement) for SVG can not
yet be available. There are even no professional SVG authoring tools, which
could be as powerful and robust as Flash MX. So developing an easy to use,
scalable and robust IDE for SVG should be meaningful.
3.Features of SVG Plugin
The first version of SVG plugin has been already available in my
website(www.openvue.net/projects). Although it is still in its very begining
stage, it now allow developers to design their web application interface in
a way of WYSIWYG as what you have done with Visual Basic. There are still
many things to do:
(1) A better Javascript editor
(2) Integrated Javascript debugger. Almost all SVG components in the plugin
are generated dynamically by Javascript. It would be hard to maintain these
codes without a debugger.
(3) "Looks & Feels" feature, it should allow users to change the L&F at
runtime
(4) Some Javascript classes to communicate with the servers with different
protocols, such as SOAP, XML RPC etc
(5) Some advanced SVG component, such as Table, TreeView, ListView, Chart
etc, to represent data
(6) More stable and more fast
4.Conclusion
I think the Web Tool Project should not only focus in improving the
develops' efficiency but also the users' experiences. SVG is a good way to
personalize our web application, smooth the web development and make the
maintain much easier.
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| Re: Proposal of SVG Plug-in [message #22409 is a reply to message #22386] |
Tue, 11 May 2004 17:40 |
| Eclipse User |
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Have you consider using XUL instead of just SVG. XUL has more of the
Rich Internet Application features that you'll need, if this is the
goal. This might make easy to build on top of their work, instead of
starting from scratch.
See http://mozillazine.org/articles/article4584.html for an overview of
the project.
Xinjie ZHANG wrote:
> Proposal of SVG Plug-in
>
> 1.Background
> Although there are many well-designed frameworks, developing a stable,
> easy-to-maintain and personalized web application is still a big challenge
> for developers. Where is the problem? I don't think the frameworks, such as
> Struts, Spring,Maverick,Hibernate etc, are not good enough. Their
> archetectures all sound reasonable. But when you put them into practice, you
> will find them difficult to tame. They are all based on MVC/Model 2
> archetecture. I should say the "View" is the weakest section in all these
> framework. I do not think HTML could be a suitable format for the GUI of web
> applications, although it would still be the first choice for a long time.
> Let's look into its shortcomings:
>
> (1)The bigest problem of HTML should be its layout strategy. It heavily
> relies on Tables. In order to render interface elements properly, you should
> put a lot of efforts to carefully design the Tables. In most cases, it is
> beyond the capacity of a developer. Moreover, to make application developers
> and HTML web designers understand each others and cooperate smoothly is
> never so easy.
>
> (2)The capacity to generate dynamical HTML elements is very limited and not
> easy to control.
>
> (3)HTML is a stateless language, all middle states should be transfered
> between servers and browsers with GET/POST. Network timeout problems may
> lose all the middle state data, it is really annoying for users to enter
> them again and again. Moreover it could also cause security problems.
>
> (4)Personalizing a HTML web application is difficult. Maybe a lot of images
> would be helpful, but it will cause a web application to be slow.
>
> For those reasons, I think a more powerful browser side language is
> necessary. Flash and SVG could be taken into account
>
> 2.Flash or SVG
>
> Macromedia brings us a new term "Rich Internet Application" or RIA when it
> announces its new product Flash MX. Of course, we should not consider it as
> a new conception. Even several years ago, Sun's Java Applet could do the
> same thing, certainly with more efforts. Unfortunately, for Java Applet's
> long load time, big footprint and bad supports of Microsoft, it could not be
> a widely accepted solution for RIA. Flash MX seems the best choice.However
> Its overall developer environment is still focused toward animation
> development. The program uses a score in which you add cast members within a
> timeline - a method used for traditional animation. But linear
> timeline-based development just doesn't make sense in an application
> environment. Moreover the standard SWF is completely controled by
> Macromedia, it is not so good for an open source project.
>
> So why not SVG(Scalable Vector Graphics)? SVG could be another choice for
> RIA. It is a XML based 2D vector graphics open standard, under development
> by the W3C. It has some unique advantages, such as homan-readable format,
> manipulation of graphics elements via DOM, full supports of JavaScript and
> even Java ect. In the point of a developer, it is really great.
> Unfortunately, an IDE (Integrated Development Envirement) for SVG can not
> yet be available. There are even no professional SVG authoring tools, which
> could be as powerful and robust as Flash MX. So developing an easy to use,
> scalable and robust IDE for SVG should be meaningful.
>
> 3.Features of SVG Plugin
>
> The first version of SVG plugin has been already available in my
> website(www.openvue.net/projects). Although it is still in its very begining
> stage, it now allow developers to design their web application interface in
> a way of WYSIWYG as what you have done with Visual Basic. There are still
> many things to do:
>
> (1) A better Javascript editor
> (2) Integrated Javascript debugger. Almost all SVG components in the plugin
> are generated dynamically by Javascript. It would be hard to maintain these
> codes without a debugger.
> (3) "Looks & Feels" feature, it should allow users to change the L&F at
> runtime
> (4) Some Javascript classes to communicate with the servers with different
> protocols, such as SOAP, XML RPC etc
> (5) Some advanced SVG component, such as Table, TreeView, ListView, Chart
> etc, to represent data
> (6) More stable and more fast
>
> 4.Conclusion
> I think the Web Tool Project should not only focus in improving the
> develops' efficiency but also the users' experiences. SVG is a good way to
> personalize our web application, smooth the web development and make the
> maintain much easier.
>
>
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| Re: Proposal of SVG Plug-in [message #22591 is a reply to message #22409] |
Wed, 12 May 2004 09:58 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: xjzhang.openvue.net
Good Idea!
I have read the specification of XUL 1.0. It is wonderful. A SVG widget
framework based on XUL would be powerful enough to build any web
application.
"Jeff Duska" <Jeff.Duska@noaa.gov> wrote in message
news:c7rgq6$nqo$1@eclipse.org...
> Have you consider using XUL instead of just SVG. XUL has more of the
> Rich Internet Application features that you'll need, if this is the
> goal. This might make easy to build on top of their work, instead of
> starting from scratch.
>
> See http://mozillazine.org/articles/article4584.html for an overview of
> the project.
>
>
> Xinjie ZHANG wrote:
> > Proposal of SVG Plug-in
> >
> > 1.Background
> > Although there are many well-designed frameworks, developing a stable,
> > easy-to-maintain and personalized web application is still a big
challenge
> > for developers. Where is the problem? I don't think the frameworks, such
as
> > Struts, Spring,Maverick,Hibernate etc, are not good enough. Their
> > archetectures all sound reasonable. But when you put them into practice,
you
> > will find them difficult to tame. They are all based on MVC/Model 2
> > archetecture. I should say the "View" is the weakest section in all
these
> > framework. I do not think HTML could be a suitable format for the GUI of
web
> > applications, although it would still be the first choice for a long
time.
> > Let's look into its shortcomings:
> >
> > (1)The bigest problem of HTML should be its layout strategy. It heavily
> > relies on Tables. In order to render interface elements properly, you
should
> > put a lot of efforts to carefully design the Tables. In most cases, it
is
> > beyond the capacity of a developer. Moreover, to make application
developers
> > and HTML web designers understand each others and cooperate smoothly is
> > never so easy.
> >
> > (2)The capacity to generate dynamical HTML elements is very limited and
not
> > easy to control.
> >
> > (3)HTML is a stateless language, all middle states should be transfered
> > between servers and browsers with GET/POST. Network timeout problems may
> > lose all the middle state data, it is really annoying for users to enter
> > them again and again. Moreover it could also cause security problems.
> >
> > (4)Personalizing a HTML web application is difficult. Maybe a lot of
images
> > would be helpful, but it will cause a web application to be slow.
> >
> > For those reasons, I think a more powerful browser side language is
> > necessary. Flash and SVG could be taken into account
> >
> > 2.Flash or SVG
> >
> > Macromedia brings us a new term "Rich Internet Application" or RIA when
it
> > announces its new product Flash MX. Of course, we should not consider it
as
> > a new conception. Even several years ago, Sun's Java Applet could do the
> > same thing, certainly with more efforts. Unfortunately, for Java
Applet's
> > long load time, big footprint and bad supports of Microsoft, it could
not be
> > a widely accepted solution for RIA. Flash MX seems the best
choice.However
> > Its overall developer environment is still focused toward animation
> > development. The program uses a score in which you add cast members
within a
> > timeline - a method used for traditional animation. But linear
> > timeline-based development just doesn't make sense in an application
> > environment. Moreover the standard SWF is completely controled by
> > Macromedia, it is not so good for an open source project.
> >
> > So why not SVG(Scalable Vector Graphics)? SVG could be another choice
for
> > RIA. It is a XML based 2D vector graphics open standard, under
development
> > by the W3C. It has some unique advantages, such as homan-readable
format,
> > manipulation of graphics elements via DOM, full supports of JavaScript
and
> > even Java ect. In the point of a developer, it is really great.
> > Unfortunately, an IDE (Integrated Development Envirement) for SVG can
not
> > yet be available. There are even no professional SVG authoring tools,
which
> > could be as powerful and robust as Flash MX. So developing an easy to
use,
> > scalable and robust IDE for SVG should be meaningful.
> >
> > 3.Features of SVG Plugin
> >
> > The first version of SVG plugin has been already available in my
> > website(www.openvue.net/projects). Although it is still in its very
begining
> > stage, it now allow developers to design their web application interface
in
> > a way of WYSIWYG as what you have done with Visual Basic. There are
still
> > many things to do:
> >
> > (1) A better Javascript editor
> > (2) Integrated Javascript debugger. Almost all SVG components in the
plugin
> > are generated dynamically by Javascript. It would be hard to maintain
these
> > codes without a debugger.
> > (3) "Looks & Feels" feature, it should allow users to change the L&F at
> > runtime
> > (4) Some Javascript classes to communicate with the servers with
different
> > protocols, such as SOAP, XML RPC etc
> > (5) Some advanced SVG component, such as Table, TreeView, ListView,
Chart
> > etc, to represent data
> > (6) More stable and more fast
> >
> > 4.Conclusion
> > I think the Web Tool Project should not only focus in improving the
> > develops' efficiency but also the users' experiences. SVG is a good way
to
> > personalize our web application, smooth the web development and make the
> > maintain much easier.
> >
> >
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