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Re: Neon Version of Scout - Scout SDK Tooling [message #1716836 is a reply to message #1716682] |
Tue, 08 December 2015 08:08   |
Eclipse User |
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Urs Beeli wrote on Mon, 07 December 2015 14:54Now that the Eclipse dependency in the Scout runtime is gone, are there plans to support both Eclipse and IntelliJ for the SDK?
Now that running a Scout Application do not requires Equinox/OSGi we theoretically do not depend on Eclipse Tooling anymore (no PDE, no Tycho and so on).
If you take the Hello-World example: it is a plain java application, the dependencies between the modules are defined in the maven pom. I did not try it, but you should be able to start and edit it from any Java IDE.
For each feature we build with neon, we try to be IDE agnostic. Here some examples:
* FormData generation is a simple java program, that now is integrated in Eclipse IDE (when a form class changes, the FormData class needs to be regenerated) but that could be integrated elsewhere.
* If I am not mistaken, the "New Scout Application" wizard now relies on maven archetype (you could use it from the command line).
* ...
That said, having a good development experience with an IDE goes behind the runtime and the build system. My personal opinion is that "supporting IntelliJ" is again a question of sponsorship. Who is willing to invest time and/or money in Tooling for IntelliJ?
To my current knowledge BSI is evaluating how much tooling for Eclipse IDE is requested to work efficiently with the Eclipse Scout framework (first motivation is that BSI employees are efficient when they work on Scout application projects). BSI has no plan to invest in other IDE Tooling.
The important message is: the door is not closed, but someone has to invest this feature to make it happen.
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Re: Neon Version of Scout - Scout SDK Tooling [message #1717406 is a reply to message #1717368] |
Sun, 13 December 2015 02:51   |
Eclipse User |
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As already mentioned, the most important feature currently missing in Neon is the formdata code (re)generation - at least I couldn't get it working. But I see you're onto that.
After that, the feature I use most heavily is the Scout Properties Editor. It is particularly nice since it not only generates code, but it also gives an overview of what things can be tweaked in each element. This is a big plus for learn-ability.
Then, NLS editor (the ability to create/edit NLS keys from the properties editor is a big time saver too), which is already included. Nice.
I use the scout explorer for browsing, and basically create all new scout elements using the right-click context menu wizards, but I could probably live without it and use the project explorer instead, but well... it's nice to have. Ditto with the product launchers. I haven't really used templates much, and I don't use the CTRL-space code templates.
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Re: Neon Version of Scout - Scout SDK Tooling [message #1717735 is a reply to message #1716836] |
Wed, 16 December 2015 06:49   |
Eclipse User |
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Jeremie Bresson wrote on Tue, 08 December 2015 08:08Urs Beeli wrote on Mon, 07 December 2015 14:54Now that the Eclipse dependency in the Scout runtime is gone, are there plans to support both Eclipse and IntelliJ for the SDK?
Now that running a Scout Application do not requires Equinox/OSGi we theoretically do not depend on Eclipse Tooling anymore (no PDE, no Tycho and so on).
If you take the Hello-World example: it is a plain java application, the dependencies between the modules are defined in the maven pom. I did not try it, but you should be able to start and edit it from any Java IDE.
For each feature we build with neon, we try to be IDE agnostic. Here some examples:
* FormData generation is a simple java program, that now is integrated in Eclipse IDE (when a form class changes, the FormData class needs to be regenerated) but that could be integrated elsewhere.
* If I am not mistaken, the "New Scout Application" wizard now relies on maven archetype (you could use it from the command line).
* ...
That said, having a good development experience with an IDE goes behind the runtime and the build system. My personal opinion is that "supporting IntelliJ" is again a question of sponsorship. Who is willing to invest time and/or money in Tooling for IntelliJ?
To my current knowledge BSI is evaluating how much tooling for Eclipse IDE is requested to work efficiently with the Eclipse Scout framework (first motivation is that BSI employees are efficient when they work on Scout application projects). BSI has no plan to invest in other IDE Tooling.
The important message is: the door is not closed, but someone has to invest this feature to make it happen.
I would really like to see form data generation as a maven plugin or a part of one. It is a really bad practice to commit generated files in your source control and I would prefer to avoid it if possible (also we could use intellij then if we wanted to).
Another thing is that while experienced users don't need the Scout view part, it is really good for beginners... an easy way to introduce it.
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Re: Neon Version of Scout - Scout SDK Tooling [message #1718404 is a reply to message #1715922] |
Wed, 23 December 2015 07:21   |
Eclipse User |
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Hello Jérémie
Here is some feedback from me:
1. New scout model inner class in existing java files
This would be an awesome feature I would definitively use a lot! However, the priority is not really that high, because the default JDT proposals and code completions are usually quite sufficient. Writing "public class XXX extends AbstractYYY { [Enter]" does not take that long. Nevertheless it would be very convenient for advanced users. I think, beginners would prefer the SDK outline tree (see point 5).
Some additional proposals:
* SDK code completions should allow to easily override getConfiguredXXX methods (without having to write "getConfigured[Ctrl-Space]".
* There should be an action to create a public getter for a field or column class.
3. Application launchers
I never use those, but I know of users who do frequently.
4. Create an a template from an existing GroupBox
I didn't even know this function existed 
5. Scout Outline view of the currently opened class
I think it would be very important to provide the tree structure view, at least for forms and tables. Especially for new Scout users, this is extremely helpful. I know of many users who still regularly create and manage forms and tables with this view. Sure, the more advanced you get, the more you directly edit the Java code. But the possibility to do both simultaneously is one of Scout's biggest strengts. Drag & drop in the tree is also an important function, because it not only moves the code in the file but also changed the @Order numbers accordingly.
I don't know if I would use the Ctrl-O popup, because the plain JDT Ctrl-O popup already provides all information i need (including methods and filtering). What would be the benefit (apart from different icons)?
Beat
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