Home » Language IDEs » ServerTools (WTP) » Draft proposal for project pages, charter
| Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #17979] |
Tue, 17 February 2004 23:22  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: ed.burnette.REMOVE.THIS.sas.com
I've been working up a proposal for the Eclipse Web Tools Project and would
like some input on this:
http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools
http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools/webtools-charter.html
(This is now unrelated to the WDTE sourceforge project).
Basically, it defines two initial subprojects in Web Tools: Platform and
J2EE. Platform has things like XML, HTML, CSS, and JS editing, web service
support, generic server control, data query, and so forth. J2EE has JSP
editing, servlet debugging, EJB's, etc.
Thanks,
-- Ed
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #17993 is a reply to message #17979] |
Wed, 18 February 2004 06:47  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: eostroukhov.hotmail.com
I wonder, how the query editor that will be supplied by the IBM (according
to the earlier discussions) will fit into this project? I don't think it
fits into WDT/platform as it is not connected to web development per se and
I doubt it is worth to make it J2EE-private - PHP/ASP.NET and others will
gladly use it. My current project (WYSIWYG report editor) is also interested
in it. May be it is worth adding some top-level Eclipse project? But to me
it feels more like repository of the helper object (if such thing would
exist it could be that some day our team will donate things like visual
expression builder to it...)
Eugene
"Ed Burnette" <ed.burnette@REMOVE.THIS.sas.com> wrote in message
news:c0up58$fv2$1@eclipse.org...
> I've been working up a proposal for the Eclipse Web Tools Project and
would
> like some input on this:
>
> http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools
> http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools/webtools-charter.html
>
> (This is now unrelated to the WDTE sourceforge project).
>
> Basically, it defines two initial subprojects in Web Tools: Platform and
> J2EE. Platform has things like XML, HTML, CSS, and JS editing, web service
> support, generic server control, data query, and so forth. J2EE has JSP
> editing, servlet debugging, EJB's, etc.
>
> Thanks,
> -- Ed
>
>
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #18006 is a reply to message #17993] |
Wed, 18 February 2004 06:49 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: eostroukhov.hotmail.com
Oops sorry. I'm more writer then reader :) I've read that Query builder
belongs to the platform - but I guess, it should not be the part of the Web
Tools (i.e. it should not be hard-wired to the WDT). It should be more
generic.
"Eugene Ostroukhov" <eostroukhov@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0vj5p$dbu$1@eclipse.org...
> I wonder, how the query editor that will be supplied by the IBM (according
> to the earlier discussions) will fit into this project? I don't think it
> fits into WDT/platform as it is not connected to web development per se
and
> I doubt it is worth to make it J2EE-private - PHP/ASP.NET and others will
> gladly use it. My current project (WYSIWYG report editor) is also
interested
> in it. May be it is worth adding some top-level Eclipse project? But to me
> it feels more like repository of the helper object (if such thing would
> exist it could be that some day our team will donate things like visual
> expression builder to it...)
>
> Eugene
>
> "Ed Burnette" <ed.burnette@REMOVE.THIS.sas.com> wrote in message
> news:c0up58$fv2$1@eclipse.org...
> > I've been working up a proposal for the Eclipse Web Tools Project and
> would
> > like some input on this:
> >
> > http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools
> > http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools/webtools-charter.html
> >
> > (This is now unrelated to the WDTE sourceforge project).
> >
> > Basically, it defines two initial subprojects in Web Tools: Platform and
> > J2EE. Platform has things like XML, HTML, CSS, and JS editing, web
service
> > support, generic server control, data query, and so forth. J2EE has JSP
> > editing, servlet debugging, EJB's, etc.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -- Ed
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #18017 is a reply to message #18006] |
Wed, 18 February 2004 15:36 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: ed.burnette.REMOVE.THIS.sas.com
The structured (XML) editor and the query builder, and perhaps the server
support, are useful beyond just Web tools. So ideally they should be
modular - i.e., if you just needed a query builder for example you wouldn't
want to pull in the other parts.
In this draft, the query builder goes in the Web Tools Platform and not the
Eclipse Platform, mostly for historical reasons of its origin. Maybe we need
to come up with another name besides Platform to prevent confusion. You
could argue that everything is 'platform' because it can be used to build up
other products.
I wouldn't be too concerned about getting everything in the perfect spot
because projects can be moved around by the PMCs when it makes sense. For
example one could argue that EMF, XSD, GEF should really be moved into the
Eclipse Platform project at some point.
--
Ed
"Eugene Ostroukhov" <eostroukhov@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c0vja9$dhu$1@eclipse.org...
> Oops sorry. I'm more writer then reader :) I've read that Query builder
> belongs to the platform - but I guess, it should not be the part of the
Web
> Tools (i.e. it should not be hard-wired to the WDT). It should be more
> generic.
>
> "Eugene Ostroukhov" <eostroukhov@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c0vj5p$dbu$1@eclipse.org...
> > I wonder, how the query editor that will be supplied by the IBM
(according
> > to the earlier discussions) will fit into this project? I don't think it
> > fits into WDT/platform as it is not connected to web development per se
> and
> > I doubt it is worth to make it J2EE-private - PHP/ASP.NET and others
will
> > gladly use it. My current project (WYSIWYG report editor) is also
> interested
> > in it. May be it is worth adding some top-level Eclipse project? But to
me
> > it feels more like repository of the helper object (if such thing would
> > exist it could be that some day our team will donate things like visual
> > expression builder to it...)
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > "Ed Burnette" <ed.burnette@REMOVE.THIS.sas.com> wrote in message
> > news:c0up58$fv2$1@eclipse.org...
> > > I've been working up a proposal for the Eclipse Web Tools Project and
> > would
> > > like some input on this:
> > >
> > > http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools
> > > http://www.eclipsepowered.org/webtools/webtools-charter.html
> > >
> > > (This is now unrelated to the WDTE sourceforge project).
> > >
> > > Basically, it defines two initial subprojects in Web Tools: Platform
and
> > > J2EE. Platform has things like XML, HTML, CSS, and JS editing, web
> service
> > > support, generic server control, data query, and so forth. J2EE has
JSP
> > > editing, servlet debugging, EJB's, etc.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > -- Ed
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #18043 is a reply to message #18017] |
Thu, 19 February 2004 13:00 |
| Eclipse User |
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Ed Burnette wrote:
>
> Maybe we need
> to come up with another name besides Platform to prevent confusion. You
> could argue that everything is 'platform' because it can be used to build up
> other products.
I agree that we should not use the term "Platform" in the name of the
project since the entire Top Level Project is Platform.
The spirit of the split is as follows:
There are a set of open specifications for languages and technologies
that are independent of Java and J2EE. These include HTML, CSS,
JavaScript, the XML family (XSD, XSLT, etc), the Web service family
(SOAP, WSDL, UDDI, WSI, etc.), SQL, etc. These should be grouped in one
or more projects. The project(s) should include EMF models, editors,
creation wizards, validators, server management, etc.
Next we have Java and J2EE APIs for the above specifications. These
include JSP, JSF, Servlet, JDBC, EJB, JAX-RPC, JAXP, etc. These should
be in another project which should include eclipse project Natures,
(e.g. for Web modules, EJB modules, EARs, etc.), builders, editors for
deployment descriptors, editor extensions (e.g. extend HTML editor to
support JSP), etc.
Then there are open frameworks that build on J2EE, e.g. Struts. Tools
for these should be in a third project.
There is a parallel project for non-Java Web technologies, like PHP.
These should be in a fourth project.
How about the following Project names:
1. Web Standard Tools: Servers, HTML, XML, CSS, SQL, Web services, ...
2. J2EE Standard Tools: JSP, Servlet, JDBC, JSF, EJB, JAX*
3. J2EE Framework Tools: e.g. Struts
4. Web Framework Tools: e.g. PHP
-- Arthur
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #18077 is a reply to message #18043] |
Thu, 19 February 2004 22:39 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: ed.burnette.REMOVE.THIS.sas.com
"Arthur Ryman" <ryman@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:c12tdp$edd$1@eclipse.org...
>
> I agree that we should not use the term "Platform" in the name of the
> project since the entire Top Level Project is Platform.
In the current version but not in my version. I've just been calling it the
"Web Tools Project", and then some of that is "Platform" and some is
"Tools". Everything is extensible and can be built upon so it's a minor
point.
>...
> Next we have Java and J2EE APIs for the above specifications. These
> include JSP, JSF, Servlet, JDBC, EJB, JAX-RPC, JAXP, etc. These should
> be in another project which should include eclipse project Natures,
> (e.g. for Web modules, EJB modules, EARs, etc.), builders, editors for
> deployment descriptors, editor extensions (e.g. extend HTML editor to
> support JSP), etc.
Not so sure on this one, because I see a natural split between the
heavy-weight and the light-weight portions from a user point of view. Many
people just want servlets and JSPs - so is the best way to accomodate that a
separate project or is it something that filters out the functionality you
see based on what type of development you're doing?
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #18255 is a reply to message #18043] |
Fri, 27 February 2004 03:54 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: christophe.ney.objectweb.org
I like your subproject division, and it should match individual committers
interest.
4 may need to ne divided as we go, ie. I don't see the same lead for PHP and
..NET ;-)
christophe
1. Web Standard Tools: Servers, HTML, XML, CSS, SQL, Web services, ...
2. J2EE Standard Tools: JSP, Servlet, JDBC, JSF, EJB, JAX*
3. J2EE Framework Tools: e.g. Struts
4. Web Framework Tools: e.g. PHP
"Arthur Ryman" <ryman@ca.ibm.com> a
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| Re: Draft proposal for project pages, charter [message #18288 is a reply to message #18043] |
Sat, 28 February 2004 21:03 |
| Eclipse User |
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Arthur Ryman wrote:
> Ed Burnette wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe we need
>> to come up with another name besides Platform to prevent confusion. You
>> could argue that everything is 'platform' because it can be used to
>> build up
>> other products.
>
>
> I agree that we should not use the term "Platform" in the name of the
> project since the entire Top Level Project is Platform.
>
> The spirit of the split is as follows:
>
> There are a set of open specifications for languages and technologies
> that are independent of Java and J2EE. These include HTML, CSS,
> JavaScript, the XML family (XSD, XSLT, etc), the Web service family
> (SOAP, WSDL, UDDI, WSI, etc.), SQL, etc. These should be grouped in one
> or more projects. The project(s) should include EMF models, editors,
> creation wizards, validators, server management, etc.
>
> Next we have Java and J2EE APIs for the above specifications. These
> include JSP, JSF, Servlet, JDBC, EJB, JAX-RPC, JAXP, etc. These should
> be in another project which should include eclipse project Natures,
> (e.g. for Web modules, EJB modules, EARs, etc.), builders, editors for
> deployment descriptors, editor extensions (e.g. extend HTML editor to
> support JSP), etc.
>
> Then there are open frameworks that build on J2EE, e.g. Struts. Tools
> for these should be in a third project.
>
> There is a parallel project for non-Java Web technologies, like PHP.
> These should be in a fourth project.
>
> How about the following Project names:
>
> 1. Web Standard Tools: Servers, HTML, XML, CSS, SQL, Web services, ...
> 2. J2EE Standard Tools: JSP, Servlet, JDBC, JSF, EJB, JAX*
> 3. J2EE Framework Tools: e.g. Struts
> 4. Web Framework Tools: e.g. PHP
>
> -- Arthur
>
That looks good for a start. I'd like to see somewhat more of a split,
for the sake to use the components more effectively.
In my opinion we should split 1. into
1a. Server and deployment framework
1b. HTML, XML (XSL, XSLT, DTD, Schema, ...), CSS, JavaScript
1c. SQL
1d. Web Services
Because if I want to build a strait forward web page builder, then I
need only 1a and 1b. If I want to build on top of this a
Cocoon/Forrest/Lenya IDE, I still do not necessarily need SQL or
Web-Services.
I could also imagine to build an E-Mail app or a PIM based on 1b only.
Off course one could think of an inclusion of 1a., but that depends
heavily on what services this will deliver (POP3, SMTP, IMAP, LDAP,
WebDav, Exchange, ... - that seems to me another chapter). How about
managing mailing lists with Eclipse.
How about an app to produce and manage online surveys, based on 1a, 1b, 1c.
One might add other tools like Image Editors, Image Generators (text to
image for easy menu generation), streaming video editors, etc.
How about the following Project names:
1a. Server and deployment framework
1b. W3C core: HTML, XML (XSL, XSLT, DTD, Schema, ...), CSS, JavaScript
1c. Database: Extended Server and deployment Framework, SQL
1d. Web Services: WSDL, ...
2. J2EE Standard Tools: JSP, Servlet, JDBC, JSF, EJB, JAX*
3. J2EE Framework Tools: e.g. Struts
4. Web Framework Tools: e.g. PHP
-- Kaj
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