Home » Language IDEs » ServerTools (WTP) » Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155546 is a reply to message #155487] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 04:34   |
 Tommy Vercetti
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Thanks for the replies! It doesn't resolve the actual issue but I feel a
lot better that people are well aware of this and that I'm not the only
one experiencing this.
I've notice some bugs like this will go away when I restart Eclipse but
other times they don't and I must manually delete that internal directory.
I really hope the propagation mechanism is significantly improved; right
now, it's definitely the worst part of the WTP web development
experience. I often notice 20 second pauses when I save a minor change
to a file (even when the server is stopped) and it's buggy and requires
me to constantly second-guess and double check the propagation.
The Microsoft ASP.NET approach works much better. The web server looks
at all web files (.aspx, css, images, etc) directly in the development
area with no propagation system. It caches the compiled code but this is
very fast and I've never noticed any problems with it not updating properly.
Thanks for the official bug link. I'd rather avoid tinkering with the
"undeclared" builds until someone confirms that this is resolved.
David Williams wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:10:31 -0500, Tommy Vercetti
> <vercetti953@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've noticed many times that I will change something such as:
>> - Delete a file
>> - Move a file
>> - Modify web.xml
>>
>
> The delete and move I think are captured in
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=121257
>
> when I've had these sorts of problem shutting down eclipse and
> restarting always fixed things up. (and, yes, I know that's still
> bad, just commenting).
>
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155554 is a reply to message #155546] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 06:07 |
Noel Bush
Messages: 38
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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|
Although I hate to say it, I for one am going to go back to 0.7.1. This
particular problem has just been the straw that broke the camel's back.
I think that WTP is a very ambitious and admirable project, with a lot
of smart people involved, but it seems that the 1.0 release has suffered
from problems that are all too common in software development: a
pre-ordained schedule is given higher priority than anything else,
defect tracking doesn't get enough resources, and the release is allowed
to get out the door despite many signs that it isn't ready.
I don't know anything about the "inside" process at WTP, but it does
appear that between the final release candidate and the release itself
there were a number of slip-ups. I have no clear idea what to attribute
these to, but the whole experience just reinforces, in my mind, the
general maxim that "you should always avoid a 1.0 release". I think
that's unfortunate, because it reflects some serious problems about the
development process in play, but hey, *everybody's* still learning.
Again, no offense meant to any of the very talented and hard-working
people involved in the project. I think it's time for whoever's
managing this process -- or maybe whoever's managing the managers -- to
take a step back for some re-examination. There needs to be some *much*
more energetic, proactive engagement of early adopters, bug reporters,
users of maintenance releases, etc. Somebody needs to be on top of
every bug report, every complaint in a newsgroup, every problem
mentioned in a blog...or at least this should be the direction of
effort. In this newsgroup I see people mentioning pretty shockingly
awful problems, but very little followup. What's more, "Eclipse people"
or "WTP people" aren't really identifying themselves as such, so nobody
can get the sense that they're being listened to. And don't even get me
started on Bugzilla....it's possible to report a bug there and never get
even an acknowledgment. That just isn't the way this kind of project
can run. Whoever's putting money behind this needs to put some more of
that money into chasing down bug reports (even hints of bugs), sniffing
out every hint of danger. Otherwise, a whole lot of great work by a
bunch of great people can get overshadowed by a couple of monkey
wrenches that fall in at the last minute.
Anyway, enough. Best of luck to the dev team. I'm setting the dial for
September 27, 2005.
Tommy Vercetti wrote:
> Thanks for the replies! It doesn't resolve the actual issue but I feel a
> lot better that people are well aware of this and that I'm not the only
> one experiencing this.
>
> I've notice some bugs like this will go away when I restart Eclipse but
> other times they don't and I must manually delete that internal directory.
>
> I really hope the propagation mechanism is significantly improved; right
> now, it's definitely the worst part of the WTP web development
> experience. I often notice 20 second pauses when I save a minor change
> to a file (even when the server is stopped) and it's buggy and requires
> me to constantly second-guess and double check the propagation.
>
> The Microsoft ASP.NET approach works much better. The web server looks
> at all web files (.aspx, css, images, etc) directly in the development
> area with no propagation system. It caches the compiled code but this is
> very fast and I've never noticed any problems with it not updating
> properly.
>
> Thanks for the official bug link. I'd rather avoid tinkering with the
> "undeclared" builds until someone confirms that this is resolved.
>
> David Williams wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:10:31 -0500, Tommy Vercetti
>> <vercetti953@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've noticed many times that I will change something such as:
>>> - Delete a file
>>> - Move a file
>>> - Modify web.xml
>>>
>>
>> The delete and move I think are captured in
>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=121257
>>
>> when I've had these sorts of problem shutting down eclipse and
>> restarting always fixed things up. (and, yes, I know that's still
>> bad, just commenting).
>>
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155578 is a reply to message #155554] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 07:41 |
Tommy Vercetti
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Extremely well said; that's what I wanted to say but I hate to complain.
I really hate to say it, but I feel that I must soon abandon
Java+Eclipse and port my app over to .NET where I can move past dev tool
issues and produce working software.
Noel Bush wrote:
> Although I hate to say it, I for one am going to go back to 0.7.1. This
> particular problem has just been the straw that broke the camel's back.
> I think that WTP is a very ambitious and admirable project, with a lot
> of smart people involved, but it seems that the 1.0 release has suffered
> from problems that are all too common in software development: a
> pre-ordained schedule is given higher priority than anything else,
> defect tracking doesn't get enough resources, and the release is allowed
> to get out the door despite many signs that it isn't ready.
>
> I don't know anything about the "inside" process at WTP, but it does
> appear that between the final release candidate and the release itself
> there were a number of slip-ups. I have no clear idea what to attribute
> these to, but the whole experience just reinforces, in my mind, the
> general maxim that "you should always avoid a 1.0 release". I think
> that's unfortunate, because it reflects some serious problems about the
> development process in play, but hey, *everybody's* still learning.
>
> Again, no offense meant to any of the very talented and hard-working
> people involved in the project. I think it's time for whoever's
> managing this process -- or maybe whoever's managing the managers -- to
> take a step back for some re-examination. There needs to be some *much*
> more energetic, proactive engagement of early adopters, bug reporters,
> users of maintenance releases, etc. Somebody needs to be on top of
> every bug report, every complaint in a newsgroup, every problem
> mentioned in a blog...or at least this should be the direction of
> effort. In this newsgroup I see people mentioning pretty shockingly
> awful problems, but very little followup. What's more, "Eclipse people"
> or "WTP people" aren't really identifying themselves as such, so nobody
> can get the sense that they're being listened to. And don't even get me
> started on Bugzilla....it's possible to report a bug there and never get
> even an acknowledgment. That just isn't the way this kind of project
> can run. Whoever's putting money behind this needs to put some more of
> that money into chasing down bug reports (even hints of bugs), sniffing
> out every hint of danger. Otherwise, a whole lot of great work by a
> bunch of great people can get overshadowed by a couple of monkey
> wrenches that fall in at the last minute.
>
> Anyway, enough. Best of luck to the dev team. I'm setting the dial for
> September 27, 2005.
>
> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>> Thanks for the replies! It doesn't resolve the actual issue but I feel
>> a lot better that people are well aware of this and that I'm not the
>> only one experiencing this.
>>
>> I've notice some bugs like this will go away when I restart Eclipse
>> but other times they don't and I must manually delete that internal
>> directory.
>>
>> I really hope the propagation mechanism is significantly improved;
>> right now, it's definitely the worst part of the WTP web development
>> experience. I often notice 20 second pauses when I save a minor change
>> to a file (even when the server is stopped) and it's buggy and
>> requires me to constantly second-guess and double check the propagation.
>>
>> The Microsoft ASP.NET approach works much better. The web server looks
>> at all web files (.aspx, css, images, etc) directly in the development
>> area with no propagation system. It caches the compiled code but this
>> is very fast and I've never noticed any problems with it not updating
>> properly.
>>
>> Thanks for the official bug link. I'd rather avoid tinkering with the
>> "undeclared" builds until someone confirms that this is resolved.
>>
>> David Williams wrote:
>>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:10:31 -0500, Tommy Vercetti
>>> <vercetti953@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've noticed many times that I will change something such as:
>>>> - Delete a file
>>>> - Move a file
>>>> - Modify web.xml
>>>>
>>>
>>> The delete and move I think are captured in
>>> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=121257
>>>
>>> when I've had these sorts of problem shutting down eclipse and
>>> restarting always fixed things up. (and, yes, I know that's still
>>> bad, just commenting).
>>>
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155659 is a reply to message #155652] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 14:05 |
Werner Punz
Messages: 52
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Noel Bush wrote:
> I'm not in a position to make such a dramatic leap as to begin using
> .NET. And I really think that Eclipse and the WTP project are very
> significant achievements demonstrating the great extent of what can be
> done with open source. I don't mean to disparage anybody involved with
> the process, nor to dismiss the projects (nor the language) out of hand
> -- I just personally found this particular bug to be the limit of what I
> could deal with at the moment, and I'm suggesting that this project
> (like many, many others) needs to take a look at improving its release
> process to avoid really major bugs like this getting into official
> releases. As soon as I can, I'll be back using the latest release of
> WTP -- but for now I'm trying the 0.7 series again and watching Bugzilla.
Well the way I see it is that WTP in its current state is more or less a
base project for plugin makers, not an end user project (yet)
I just have to say, we all have to give it time, and yes I agree the 1.0
was sort of rushed in my opinion, but given that a bugfix release is
scheduled for february and that the plugin vendors themselves will fix
some of the stuff, I can live with its current state.
WTP will over time get a rather mature state, all projects do, but the
1.0 sort of is, well 1.0.
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155723 is a reply to message #155652] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 18:47 |
Tommy Vercetti
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Noel Bush wrote:
> Werner Punz wrote:
>> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>>> Extremely well said; that's what I wanted to say but I hate to complain.
>>>
>>> I really hate to say it, but I feel that I must soon abandon
>>> Java+Eclipse and port my app over to .NET where I can move past dev tool
>>> issues and produce working software.
>
> I'm not in a position to make such a dramatic leap as to begin using
> .NET. And I really think that Eclipse and the WTP project are very
> significant achievements demonstrating the great extent of what can be
> done with open source. I don't mean to disparage anybody involved with
> the process, nor to dismiss the projects (nor the language) out of hand
> -- I just personally found this particular bug to be the limit of what I
> could deal with at the moment, and I'm suggesting that this project
> (like many, many others) needs to take a look at improving its release
> process to avoid really major bugs like this getting into official
> releases. As soon as I can, I'll be back using the latest release of
> WTP -- but for now I'm trying the 0.7 series again and watching Bugzilla.
I agree that Eclipse/WTP are significant achievements. Absolutely! There
are definitely a lot of highly intelligent people involved building some
advanced software with great ideas. And Java, the language is fine.
However, I need a complete, *end to end* solution for developing
web/database software. It doesn't matter how great the pieces are if
there are fatal flaws in the chain.
I'm not saying that C# is better than Java or IIS is better than Tomcat;
I'm saying that Microsoft has a stable end-to-end web development
solution and I'm having prolonged difficulty and frustration trying to
find that in the Java realm.
My partners are used to me quickly producing functional software. Their
patience quickly wears thin when the hear about development tool holdups.
I'm don't want to discourage anyone. I love Eclipse+Java for desktop app
development and I'm excited about future Eclipse releases. But the
screws are tightening on me, and I really need to find stable tools and
start hitting software milestones soon.
As I said, I hate to complain on public forums, but any help or support
or suggestions are really greatly appreciated.
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155731 is a reply to message #155715] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 19:01 |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: holger.laebe.gmx.de
Did you try MyEclipse ? We use it with JSF 1.1, Java 5 and Oracle. It
works quite well and has good support.
Tommy Vercetti schrieb:
> Werner Punz wrote:
>
>> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>>
>>> Extremely well said; that's what I wanted to say but I hate to complain.
>>>
>>> I really hate to say it, but I feel that I must soon abandon
>>> Java+Eclipse and port my app over to .NET where I can move past dev tool
>>> issues and produce working software.
>>>
>>
>> Well there are tools which are more extensive than wtp (and also less
>> buggy)
>> you just have to check out the commercial offerings.
>
>
> Really? Please suggest some. I'd like to stick with Java 1.5.06, JSF,
> and MySQL.
>
> I have *no problem* with dropping $250 or so if I will get a good tool
> that I'm happy with that reduces these configuration headaches. On the
> other hand, I don't want to spend a bunch of money, spend time learning
> the tool, and then realize it doesn't suit my needs or isn't an
> improvement over Eclipse/WTP.
>
> I've evaluated NetBeans; it was buggy as well and I had lots of
> difficulty doing standard configuration items (getting web app talking
> to database). I may need to spend some more time with a more recent
> version.
>
> I've looked at Eclipse add-ons such as Exadel; it looked like it was a
> suite of wizards, and graphical editors built on top of Eclipse. Those
> things are nice, but first I need the basics of web development working
> reliably. And I assume such a tool inherits the bugs and problems as
> well as the benefits of WTP.
>
> I'm sticking with the free Eclipse/WTP not for cost but to get the
> latest/greatest and have a wider support base (more users -> more support).
|
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155793 is a reply to message #155715] |
Tue, 10 January 2006 23:25 |
Werner Punz
Messages: 52
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Tommy Vercetti wrote:
> Werner Punz wrote:
>
>> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>>
>>> Extremely well said; that's what I wanted to say but I hate to complain.
>>>
>>> I really hate to say it, but I feel that I must soon abandon
>>> Java+Eclipse and port my app over to .NET where I can move past dev tool
>>> issues and produce working software.
>>>
>>
>> Well there are tools which are more extensive than wtp (and also less
>> buggy)
>> you just have to check out the commercial offerings.
>
>
> Really? Please suggest some. I'd like to stick with Java 1.5.06, JSF,
> and MySQL.
>
MyEclipse would be the logical choice than it bridges the gap between
DB-ORM (Hibernate) JSF and the DB pretty well.
I would recommend Exadel as well, since it has the better JSF facilities
but it constantly has been a major pain server handling wise, due to
the fact that it relies on beta builds of the WTP, I simply cannot
recommend it currently. Hopefully things will become better once
Exadel will be based on the Februar WTP 1.01 release.
Also check out, although this is an Eclipse newsgroup, Netbeans,
the latest JDeveloper betas and Suns Studio Creator 2 EA2,
all of them very impressive in their areas.
The creator code is very similar to what Shale does in the JSF area,
very impressive stuff, indeed.
Netbeans is very strong regarding EJB2 and Webservices, JDeveloper
is an overall excellent JSF ide, with good db and ejb3 tools (also
working on non oracle dbs) but too much automation between ui layer and
ejbs for my taste (nothing prevents you from handcoding though)
And Studio Creator EA2 slowly but surely is becoming a really good tool
if you can live without myfaces, but an equally impressive set of
components from Sun and without direct ejb2/ejb3 support (only
clientside), but good db bindings via DAOs.
> I have *no problem* with dropping $250 or so if I will get a good tool
> that I'm happy with that reduces these configuration headaches. On the
> other hand, I don't want to spend a bunch of money, spend time learning
> the tool, and then realize it doesn't suit my needs or isn't an
> improvement over Eclipse/WTP.
>
Check out the options I mentioned above.
The best choice currently for bridging the gaps probably would
be MyEclipse on the Eclipse side, it is the most stable plugin
collection although somewhat
sparce in the JSF area, but it does its job and does its job really
good. Excellent Hibernate Reverse Engineering integrated btw.
(Go straight for the 4.1m2 instead of the stable build, it is much better)
Exadel, although it shows promise constantly fails on delivery
unfortunately. I would love to see it succeed, but they really need
to get their act together bugwise (unfortunatley many bugs have to be
blamed on the WTP)
Besides that there are other good options outside of Eclipse in the low
cost area.
> I've evaluated NetBeans; it was buggy as well and I had lots of
> difficulty doing standard configuration items (getting web app talking
> to database). I may need to spend some more time with a more recent
> version.
>
> I've looked at Eclipse add-ons such as Exadel; it looked like it was a
> suite of wizards, and graphical editors built on top of Eclipse. Those
> things are nice, but first I need the basics of web development working
> reliably. And I assume such a tool inherits the bugs and problems as
> well as the benefits of WTP.
>
Yes Exadel has Exactly the problem, although the tools provided by
Exadel themselves are excellent, but the WTP foundation is simply shaky,
MyEclipse way less, it is based upon
an old version of the WTP which then has been constantly improved.
So this part of MyEclipse is definitely stable and I know many who use
it with good success.
How things will work out once MyEclipse is moving to the latest WTP as
well, we will see, they are going to do it, but not instantly.
> I'm sticking with the free Eclipse/WTP not for cost but to get the
> latest/greatest and have a wider support base (more users -> more support).
|
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155807 is a reply to message #155793] |
Wed, 11 January 2006 05:57 |
Tommy Vercetti
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
Wow, thanks for the thorough rundown of Java IDEs.
Why didn't you mention IntelliJ? That's the only one I can think of that
you left out.
Based on your suggestions and that of Mr. Labe, I've downloaded
MyEclipse and IntelliJ. I'm hoping one of them is stable.
Thanks guys!
Werner Punz wrote:
> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>> Werner Punz wrote:
>>
>>> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>>>
>>>> Extremely well said; that's what I wanted to say but I hate to
>>>> complain.
>>>>
>>>> I really hate to say it, but I feel that I must soon abandon
>>>> Java+Eclipse and port my app over to .NET where I can move past dev
>>>> tool
>>>> issues and produce working software.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well there are tools which are more extensive than wtp (and also less
>>> buggy)
>>> you just have to check out the commercial offerings.
>>
>>
>> Really? Please suggest some. I'd like to stick with Java 1.5.06, JSF,
>> and MySQL.
>>
>
> MyEclipse would be the logical choice than it bridges the gap between
> DB-ORM (Hibernate) JSF and the DB pretty well.
> I would recommend Exadel as well, since it has the better JSF facilities
> but it constantly has been a major pain server handling wise, due to
> the fact that it relies on beta builds of the WTP, I simply cannot
> recommend it currently. Hopefully things will become better once
> Exadel will be based on the Februar WTP 1.01 release.
>
> Also check out, although this is an Eclipse newsgroup, Netbeans,
> the latest JDeveloper betas and Suns Studio Creator 2 EA2,
> all of them very impressive in their areas.
> The creator code is very similar to what Shale does in the JSF area,
> very impressive stuff, indeed.
>
> Netbeans is very strong regarding EJB2 and Webservices, JDeveloper
> is an overall excellent JSF ide, with good db and ejb3 tools (also
> working on non oracle dbs) but too much automation between ui layer and
> ejbs for my taste (nothing prevents you from handcoding though)
>
> And Studio Creator EA2 slowly but surely is becoming a really good tool
> if you can live without myfaces, but an equally impressive set of
> components from Sun and without direct ejb2/ejb3 support (only
> clientside), but good db bindings via DAOs.
>
>> I have *no problem* with dropping $250 or so if I will get a good tool
>> that I'm happy with that reduces these configuration headaches. On the
>> other hand, I don't want to spend a bunch of money, spend time
>> learning the tool, and then realize it doesn't suit my needs or isn't
>> an improvement over Eclipse/WTP.
>>
> Check out the options I mentioned above.
> The best choice currently for bridging the gaps probably would
> be MyEclipse on the Eclipse side, it is the most stable plugin
> collection although somewhat
> sparce in the JSF area, but it does its job and does its job really
> good. Excellent Hibernate Reverse Engineering integrated btw.
> (Go straight for the 4.1m2 instead of the stable build, it is much better)
> Exadel, although it shows promise constantly fails on delivery
> unfortunately. I would love to see it succeed, but they really need
> to get their act together bugwise (unfortunatley many bugs have to be
> blamed on the WTP)
>
> Besides that there are other good options outside of Eclipse in the low
> cost area.
>
>
>> I've evaluated NetBeans; it was buggy as well and I had lots of
>> difficulty doing standard configuration items (getting web app talking
>> to database). I may need to spend some more time with a more recent
>> version.
>>
>> I've looked at Eclipse add-ons such as Exadel; it looked like it was a
>> suite of wizards, and graphical editors built on top of Eclipse. Those
>> things are nice, but first I need the basics of web development
>> working reliably. And I assume such a tool inherits the bugs and
>> problems as well as the benefits of WTP.
>>
> Yes Exadel has Exactly the problem, although the tools provided by
> Exadel themselves are excellent, but the WTP foundation is simply shaky,
> MyEclipse way less, it is based upon
> an old version of the WTP which then has been constantly improved.
> So this part of MyEclipse is definitely stable and I know many who use
> it with good success.
>
> How things will work out once MyEclipse is moving to the latest WTP as
> well, we will see, they are going to do it, but not instantly.
>
>> I'm sticking with the free Eclipse/WTP not for cost but to get the
>> latest/greatest and have a wider support base (more users -> more
>> support).
|
|
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| Re: Eclipse 3.1.1 WTP 1.0 bugs [message #155832 is a reply to message #155807] |
Wed, 11 January 2006 07:39 |
Werner Punz
Messages: 52
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
While Intellij is excellent the a
price frame of 250 dollars was mentioned afair, Intellij and also
NitroX/BEA are above that pricepoint.
(same goes for the IBM offering and Borland)
The intellij JSF support currently also is rather non existent
(although many myfaces developers I know prefer to use it)
Intellij-Jetbrains probably will probably merge the Visual Fabrique
codebase which they just stopped with JSF but they are not there yet,
all you get currently is a set of good xml jsp etc... editors, non
visual of course.
Werner
Tommy Vercetti wrote:
> Wow, thanks for the thorough rundown of Java IDEs.
>
> Why didn't you mention IntelliJ? That's the only one I can think of that
> you left out.
>
> Based on your suggestions and that of Mr. Labe, I've downloaded
> MyEclipse and IntelliJ. I'm hoping one of them is stable.
>
> Thanks guys!
>
> Werner Punz wrote:
>
>> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>>
>>> Werner Punz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tommy Vercetti wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Extremely well said; that's what I wanted to say but I hate to
>>>>> complain.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really hate to say it, but I feel that I must soon abandon
>>>>> Java+Eclipse and port my app over to .NET where I can move past dev
>>>>> tool
>>>>> issues and produce working software.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well there are tools which are more extensive than wtp (and also
>>>> less buggy)
>>>> you just have to check out the commercial offerings.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Really? Please suggest some. I'd like to stick with Java 1.5.06, JSF,
>>> and MySQL.
>>>
>>
>> MyEclipse would be the logical choice than it bridges the gap between
>> DB-ORM (Hibernate) JSF and the DB pretty well.
>> I would recommend Exadel as well, since it has the better JSF facilities
>> but it constantly has been a major pain server handling wise, due to
>> the fact that it relies on beta builds of the WTP, I simply cannot
>> recommend it currently. Hopefully things will become better once
>> Exadel will be based on the Februar WTP 1.01 release.
>>
>> Also check out, although this is an Eclipse newsgroup, Netbeans,
>> the latest JDeveloper betas and Suns Studio Creator 2 EA2,
>> all of them very impressive in their areas.
>> The creator code is very similar to what Shale does in the JSF area,
>> very impressive stuff, indeed.
>>
>> Netbeans is very strong regarding EJB2 and Webservices, JDeveloper
>> is an overall excellent JSF ide, with good db and ejb3 tools (also
>> working on non oracle dbs) but too much automation between ui layer
>> and ejbs for my taste (nothing prevents you from handcoding though)
>>
>> And Studio Creator EA2 slowly but surely is becoming a really good tool
>> if you can live without myfaces, but an equally impressive set of
>> components from Sun and without direct ejb2/ejb3 support (only
>> clientside), but good db bindings via DAOs.
>>
>>> I have *no problem* with dropping $250 or so if I will get a good
>>> tool that I'm happy with that reduces these configuration headaches.
>>> On the other hand, I don't want to spend a bunch of money, spend time
>>> learning the tool, and then realize it doesn't suit my needs or isn't
>>> an improvement over Eclipse/WTP.
>>>
>> Check out the options I mentioned above.
>> The best choice currently for bridging the gaps probably would
>> be MyEclipse on the Eclipse side, it is the most stable plugin
>> collection although somewhat
>> sparce in the JSF area, but it does its job and does its job really
>> good. Excellent Hibernate Reverse Engineering integrated btw.
>> (Go straight for the 4.1m2 instead of the stable build, it is much
>> better)
>> Exadel, although it shows promise constantly fails on delivery
>> unfortunately. I would love to see it succeed, but they really need
>> to get their act together bugwise (unfortunatley many bugs have to be
>> blamed on the WTP)
>>
>> Besides that there are other good options outside of Eclipse in the
>> low cost area.
>>
>>
>>> I've evaluated NetBeans; it was buggy as well and I had lots of
>>> difficulty doing standard configuration items (getting web app
>>> talking to database). I may need to spend some more time with a more
>>> recent version.
>>>
>>> I've looked at Eclipse add-ons such as Exadel; it looked like it was
>>> a suite of wizards, and graphical editors built on top of Eclipse.
>>> Those things are nice, but first I need the basics of web development
>>> working reliably. And I assume such a tool inherits the bugs and
>>> problems as well as the benefits of WTP.
>>>
>> Yes Exadel has Exactly the problem, although the tools provided by
>> Exadel themselves are excellent, but the WTP foundation is simply
>> shaky, MyEclipse way less, it is based upon
>> an old version of the WTP which then has been constantly improved.
>> So this part of MyEclipse is definitely stable and I know many who use
>> it with good success.
>>
>> How things will work out once MyEclipse is moving to the latest WTP as
>> well, we will see, they are going to do it, but not instantly.
>>
>>> I'm sticking with the free Eclipse/WTP not for cost but to get the
>>> latest/greatest and have a wider support base (more users -> more
>>> support).
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