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Stellation, next generation ENVY? [message #1203]

Fri, 05 July 2002 01:31

Stein M. Eliassen

Messages: 48
Registered: July 2009

Member

From the FAQ:

"We plan to go much further with this, and build an extremely unusual
SCM system, based on manipulating program artifacts at a finer grain
than source files."

this sounds like ENVY, but with an open architecture, is that true?

Stein

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Re: Stellation, next generation ENVY? [message #1300 is a reply to message #1203]

Fri, 05 July 2002 15:57

Mark C. Chu-Carroll

Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009

Member

On Thu, 04 Jul 2002 21:31:01 -0400, Stein M. Eliassen wrote:

> From the FAQ:
>
> "We plan to go much further with this, and build an extremely unusual
> SCM system, based on manipulating program artifacts at a finer grain
> than source files."
>
> this sounds like ENVY, but with an open architecture, is that true?

Pretty close. We're very similar to Envy in many ways, but we're actually
trying to be even more ambitious. One of the key features of our system
is the ability to dynamically generate source-file like views based on
predicates. So while in Envy, the enclosing environment defined the
ways you could view your code, in Stellation, you'll have the same
fine-grained capabilities, but you'll also be able to generate
new views of your code, and store them as persistent entities in
the repository.

One way of thinking about it is that it's almost like a cross between
envy and aspect-oriented programming.

-Mark

--
Mark Craig Chu-Carroll, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
*** The Stellation project: Advanced SCM for Collaboration
*** http://www.eclipse.org/stellation
*** Work Email: mcc@watson.ibm.com ------- Personal Email: markcc@bestweb.net

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Re: Stellation, next generation ENVY? [message #2280 is a reply to message #1300]

Sun, 07 July 2002 12:22

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: java.dtacheron.noos.fr

I previously develop with Visual Age for Java and EMSRV (repository).

VAJ was coming with very powerfull functionalities in version management but
there was also a lot of problems (you don't have the choice of JRE, EMSRV
involve administration tasks because it was instable and you could lose all
your source code)

Eclipse (JDT) is a very good product : you have the best of VAJ and more
(choice of JRE ...) BUT you lose the version management facilities. CVS is a
good product but VAJ+EMSRV was very better.

So, Stellation seems to be the solution : with Eclipse + Stellation plugin +
Stellation you wil retrieve all the power of VAJ+EMSRV.

but even when you install CVS you don't retrieve

"Mark C. Chu-Carroll" <markcc@bestweb.net> a

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Re: Stellation, next generation ENVY? [message #2368 is a reply to message #2280]

Sun, 07 July 2002 13:53

Mark C. Chu-Carroll

Messages: 64
Registered: July 2009

Member

On Sun, 07 Jul 2002 08:22:34 -0400, Damien Tacheron wrote:

> I previously develop with Visual Age for Java and EMSRV (repository).
>
> VAJ was coming with very powerfull functionalities in version management
> but there was also a lot of problems (you don't have the choice of JRE,
> EMSRV involve administration tasks because it was instable and you could
> lose all your source code)
>
> Eclipse (JDT) is a very good product : you have the best of VAJ and more
> (choice of JRE ...) BUT you lose the version management facilities. CVS
> is a good product but VAJ+EMSRV was very better.
>
> So, Stellation seems to be the solution : with Eclipse + Stellation
> plugin + Stellation you wil retrieve all the power of VAJ+EMSRV.

When the fine-grained support is working, that's what we're hoping for.
Stellation is *not* just an ENVY replacement. ENVY did things like
incorporate the incremental compilation functionality into the
repository. We're not going to do that. ENVY also a workspace-less
SCM model. Stellation is workspace based. (This means, roughly, that
in ENVY, you were editing things directly in the repository. When you
saved a change, that change was stored in the repository - essentially
doing an automatic checkin. In Stellation, you check a copy of the
project into your workspace, and edit it there. When you finish a
batch of changes, you manually check-in. The advantage of this
approach is that it can capture a collection of changes to different
fragments (our term for fine-grained artifacts) as a single atomic
changeset. The disadvantage of it is that you need to be aware of
branches, merges, checkins, and checkouts.

It's our belief that the manual checkin/checkout process has enough
advantages to outweigh the complexity issues. But we may be wrong
about that. One of the good things about our architecture is that,
should we be wrong, the basic Stellation core can support a workspaceless
model, so if we finish testing the workspace version, and it doesn't
work well, we can always switch to a workspaceless model.

> but even when you install CVS you don't retrieve

It looks like you got cut off, so I'm not sure what you were trying
to say. Did you have problems checkout the system out of CVS?

-Mark

--
Mark Craig Chu-Carroll, IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
*** The Stellation project: Advanced SCM for Collaboration
*** http://www.eclipse.org/stellation
*** Work Email: mcc@watson.ibm.com ------- Personal Email: markcc@bestweb.net

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