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| [a little offtopic] Visual Struts GUI Builder... [message #13999] |
Mon, 19 January 2004 10:24  |
Eclipse User |
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Hi there,
are there any Struts GUI Builders available yet (commercial or
non-commercial)? Something like what Visual Studio.NET is for ASP.NET,
where you can visually build your forms, with validation, editing the
widget's properties and the like...
So far, I came across Scioworks Camino 3 and Exadel Struts Studio. What
I like about Exadel Struts Studio is that it's an Eclipse plugin ;-)
But both don't seem to support editing the JSPs visually... only coding
the GUI is possible. Does something like that exist at all, yet?
kind regards,
david
--
Keine Garantie!
Holger (David) Wagner Tel: +49 (89) 890 50 962
Dewetstrasse 1 Mobil: +49 (177) 274 12 45
D-80807 München Fax: +49 (177) 992741245
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| Re: [a little offtopic] Visual Struts GUI Builder... [message #14003 is a reply to message #13999] |
Tue, 20 January 2004 01:18  |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: rsk.email.arizona.edu
Web app editing (JSP/Struts/struts-config/J2EE stuff) == MyEclipse
(www.myeclipseide.com)
Nice struts visual tooling and support == Exadel
Other than that, for the JSP web editing stuff, there aren't really any
other good choices out there. Its a barren wasteland of plugin support
right now.
That, and does anyone else find it weird as hell that the baseline
Eclipse IDE doesn't include an insanely functional XML editor? What
doesn't use XML anymore... apps, web apps, pda apps, kitchen apps,
toaster ovens... its everywhere, like SARS.
Holger (David) Wagner wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> are there any Struts GUI Builders available yet (commercial or
> non-commercial)? Something like what Visual Studio.NET is for ASP.NET,
> where you can visually build your forms, with validation, editing the
> widget's properties and the like...
>
> So far, I came across Scioworks Camino 3 and Exadel Struts Studio. What
> I like about Exadel Struts Studio is that it's an Eclipse plugin ;-)
>
> But both don't seem to support editing the JSPs visually... only coding
> the GUI is possible. Does something like that exist at all, yet?
>
> kind regards,
> david
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| Re: [a little offtopic] Visual Struts GUI Builder... [message #14811 is a reply to message #13999] |
Thu, 22 January 2004 01:06 |
| Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: sim777.earthlink.net
Hi everybody!
> So far, I came across Scioworks Camino 3 and Exadel Struts Studio. What
> I like about Exadel Struts Studio is that it's an Eclipse plugin ;-)
>
> But both don't seem to support editing the JSPs visually... only coding
> the GUI is possible. Does something like that exist at all, yet?
>
Personally, I disbelieve that real visual editor (or, in other words -
WYSYWYG ) is possible if we speak about JSP. Even for modern HTML, we can
say that some existing WYSYWYG editor is able to show in design-time how the
page will really look in the browser, just because the next question will be
"What kind of browser do you mean. Internet Explore, Netscape, Opera. And
what about the version".
HTML - is mostly static. JSP is not by default. Only run-time can judge how
the result page will look like (in particular browser of cause). I cannot
say that nobody even try to create WYSYWYG for JSP. Macromedia, one of the
leader in visual development has Macromedia Dreamweaver, most advanced
WYSYWYG I know, declares support for jsp tags. However, this means that only
some well-known tag set will be "converted" to HTML equivalent and shown on
the screen. If you write you own tag libs do not exect to much that they
will be shown other way that as some small clockwork.
As I remember, some company (do not remember the name, sorry) declared
Struts support for Dreamweaver. I.e. it released plugin for Dreamweaver with
support some limited set of well-known Struts tags.
M7 Corp. releases M7 Studio that has "World's best JSP editor" -
http://www.m7.com/products/professional.html . M7 promotes M7 Studio as a
Struts visual tool. No more comment. Look by yourself.
Returning back to eclipse, there is a 'W4T Eclipse' plug-in for Visual Web
UI development (http://www.w4toolkit.com ). This is an interesting toy, but,
actually, it is not about JSP.
Honestly, if we speak about Eclipse we should mention WebSphere Studio that
has everything (about 970 plugins are there). WebSphere Studio has a WYSYWYG
JSP Editor. Of course, this tool is not cheaper, but ideal for professional
work.
By the way, along with WYSYWYG JSP editor, WebSphere Studio has design-time
JSP Preview. JSP Preview is real alternative to WYSYWYG because it is more
flexible and, at least, uses real browser to show output. Eclipse has
Internet Explorer as an internal browser (if we speak about Windows).
The idea of JSP Preview is very simple (in contract of implementation :). We
just convert jsp tags back to html equivalent and push the output to the
browser. Struts Studio JSP Preview is accomplished with special XML file
that defines the reverse tag mapping. So, if you have your own tab library,
you will be able to customize JSP Preview that will be recognize your tags.
And couple words about our common future. I mean JaveServer Faces. You can
see that all top vendors (IBM, Sun, Oracle) promote they feature tools for
JSF. All those tools contain WYSYWYG JSP editor. So, the era of visual JSP
editors is coming.
Personally, I disbelieve in WYSYWYG for JSP, but who knows.
Regards,
Sergey Smirnov
Exadel Struts Studio Architect.
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| Re: [a little offtopic] Visual Struts GUI Builder... [message #15545 is a reply to message #14811] |
Sat, 24 January 2004 05:38 |
| Eclipse User |
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Hi Sergey,
thank you very much for your feedback!
Sergey Smirnov wrote:
>>So far, I came across Scioworks Camino 3 and Exadel Struts Studio. What
>>I like about Exadel Struts Studio is that it's an Eclipse plugin ;-)
>>
>>But both don't seem to support editing the JSPs visually... only coding
>>the GUI is possible. Does something like that exist at all, yet?
>
> Personally, I disbelieve that real visual editor (or, in other words -
> WYSYWYG ) is possible if we speak about JSP. Even for modern HTML, we can
> say that some existing WYSYWYG editor is able to show in design-time how the
> page will really look in the browser, just because the next question will be
> "What kind of browser do you mean. Internet Explore, Netscape, Opera. And
> what about the version".
I think WYSIWYG needs not be taken too literally here. What I think is
important is a way for visually editing Web user interfaces, comparable
to what GUI builders provide for general user interfaces. When it comes
to "fine-tuning" the look, I totally agree with you: that's the usual
Web design business with a lot of testing for different browsers.
> HTML - is mostly static. JSP is not by default. Only run-time can judge how
> the result page will look like (in particular browser of cause). I cannot
> say that nobody even try to create WYSYWYG for JSP. Macromedia, one of the
> leader in visual development has Macromedia Dreamweaver, most advanced
> WYSYWYG I know, declares support for jsp tags. However, this means that only
> some well-known tag set will be "converted" to HTML equivalent and shown on
> the screen. If you write you own tag libs do not exect to much that they
> will be shown other way that as some small clockwork.
That's one thing I like about Visual Studio.NET / ASP.NET: even though
it is significant extra work, you can create your own GUI components
which work well with the visual editor. I consider this one of the few
things where the Java world really needs to learn from the MS world...
hopefully, JSF will get us there soon...
> As I remember, some company (do not remember the name, sorry) declared
> Struts support for Dreamweaver. I.e. it released plugin for Dreamweaver with
> support some limited set of well-known Struts tags.
>
> M7 Corp. releases M7 Studio that has "World's best JSP editor" -
> http://www.m7.com/products/professional.html . M7 promotes M7 Studio as a
> Struts visual tool. No more comment. Look by yourself.
This looks pretty good... but also pretty expansive :-(
> Returning back to eclipse, there is a 'W4T Eclipse' plug-in for Visual Web
> UI development (http://www.w4toolkit.com ). This is an interesting toy, but,
> actually, it is not about JSP.
This is really a pity - I wish this was for Struts...
> Honestly, if we speak about Eclipse we should mention WebSphere Studio that
> has everything (about 970 plugins are there). WebSphere Studio has a WYSYWYG
> JSP Editor. Of course, this tool is not cheaper, but ideal for professional
> work.
>
> By the way, along with WYSYWYG JSP editor, WebSphere Studio has design-time
> JSP Preview. JSP Preview is real alternative to WYSYWYG because it is more
> flexible and, at least, uses real browser to show output. Eclipse has
> Internet Explorer as an internal browser (if we speak about Windows).
>
> The idea of JSP Preview is very simple (in contract of implementation :). We
> just convert jsp tags back to html equivalent and push the output to the
> browser. Struts Studio JSP Preview is accomplished with special XML file
> that defines the reverse tag mapping. So, if you have your own tab library,
> you will be able to customize JSP Preview that will be recognize your tags.
This sounds pretty good, I think .
> And couple words about our common future. I mean JaveServer Faces. You can
> see that all top vendors (IBM, Sun, Oracle) promote they feature tools for
> JSF. All those tools contain WYSYWYG JSP editor. So, the era of visual JSP
> editors is coming.
It's just a question of time ;-)
kinds regards,
david
--
Keine Garantie!
Holger (David) Wagner Tel: +49 (89) 890 50 962
Dewetstrasse 1 Mobil: +49 (177) 274 12 45
D-80807 München Fax: +49 (177) 992741245
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