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Home » Eclipse Projects » Dynamic Languages Toolkit (DLTK) » DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark)
DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11293] Mon, 23 July 2007 09:55 Go to next message
Andrey Platov is currently offline Andrey PlatovFriend
Messages: 28
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Mark,

This is my first and definitively last message in reply to Mark
No-Lastname's posts to DLTK newsgroup at least until he is writing
anonymously.

DLTK is probably youngest project among the projects released to Europa.
DLTK was became Eclipse project at Europa M4 time, and work on Ruby has
been *started* from scratch in the February, 2007. So few things to
consider:

1) What level of completeness you're expecting from one of the youngest
Eclipse projects in terms of stability and documentation availability?
You may "suggest" me write-docs-first or any other "clever" idea, but
I'll refuse them at least for the reason below:

There are already some early adopters around successfully building
solutions on top of DLTK and these adopters much more important to the
DLTK ecosystem at the beginning. And their questions and requests will
be answered at first - not messages from anonymous individuals like you
Mark.

2) Please count DLTK project performance (just a reminder: performance =
path / time). Just count on code, features, and ( yes! ;) )
documentation we delivered during last six month (we are younger than an
year) and just give me a comparison (which looks to be your favorite
job) to other projects delivering same amount of relatively stable and
conceptually complete things in such a short period of time. I would not
going to say "we're great", I just would like to say "we're not so bad".

3) What is your goal Mark?

If the goal is to find other leaders to the project - just find them. If
your goal is to have that documentation, just write it or just pay to
someone if you can't live without it. Hint: send a message to newsgroup
with a subject "I'd like to sponsor documentation for the DLTK project".

Version numbers: yes released version is 0.9. Everyone subscribed to
dltk-dev was updated about this change and reasons behind.
http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dltk-dev/msg00062.html

And finally, Mark you're welcome aboard! Project is in lack of such
energetic enthusiasts. Just please do anything you can: code, write
docs, send us a beer, or just PR (it looks like you're most experienced
in this area).

Kind Regards,
Andrey Platov
Still DLTK Project Lead.
Re: DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11330 is a reply to message #11293] Mon, 23 July 2007 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_melvin.amis.com

As my name is Mark as well, I just wanted to assure you "Mark No-Lastnam=
e" =

is someone else. I always use my full name when posting, and would neve=
r =

be so rude to begin with.

Thanks for all the good work so far DLTK people!

Mark *Melvin*

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 05:55:23 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com> wro=
te:

> Mark,
>
> This is my first and definitively last message in reply to Mark =

> No-Lastname's posts to DLTK newsgroup at least until he is writing =

> anonymously.
>
> DLTK is probably youngest project among the projects released to Europ=
a. =

> DLTK was became Eclipse project at Europa M4 time, and work on Ruby ha=
s =

> been *started* from scratch in the February, 2007. So few things to =

> consider:
>
> 1) What level of completeness you're expecting from one of the younges=
t =

> Eclipse projects in terms of stability and documentation availability?=
=

> You may "suggest" me write-docs-first or any other "clever" idea, but =
=

> I'll refuse them at least for the reason below:
>
> There are already some early adopters around successfully building =

> solutions on top of DLTK and these adopters much more important to the=
=

> DLTK ecosystem at the beginning. And their questions and requests will=
=

> be answered at first - not messages from anonymous individuals like yo=
u =

> Mark.
>
> 2) Please count DLTK project performance (just a reminder: performance=
=3D =

> path / time). Just count on code, features, and ( yes! ;) ) =

> documentation we delivered during last six month (we are younger than =
an =

> year) and just give me a comparison (which looks to be your favorite =

> job) to other projects delivering same amount of relatively stable and=
=

> conceptually complete things in such a short period of time. I would n=
ot =

> going to say "we're great", I just would like to say "we're not so bad=
".
>
> 3) What is your goal Mark?
>
> If the goal is to find other leaders to the project - just find them. =
If =

> your goal is to have that documentation, just write it or just pay to =
=

> someone if you can't live without it. Hint: send a message to newsgrou=
p =

> with a subject "I'd like to sponsor documentation for the DLTK project=
".
>
> Version numbers: yes released version is 0.9. Everyone subscribed to =

> dltk-dev was updated about this change and reasons behind. =

> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dltk-dev/msg00062.html
>
> And finally, Mark you're welcome aboard! Project is in lack of such =

> energetic enthusiasts. Just please do anything you can: code, write =

> docs, send us a beer, or just PR (it looks like you're most experience=
d =

> in this area).
>
> Kind Regards,
> Andrey Platov
> Still DLTK Project Lead.
>
Re: DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11441 is a reply to message #11330] Tue, 24 July 2007 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrey Platov is currently offline Andrey PlatovFriend
Messages: 28
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hello Mark,

Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for
supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that messages
from you guys...

In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS. It
could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but we'll
make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python to the
build process.

Thanks again, and
Kind Regards,
Andrey

Mark Melvin wrote:
> As my name is Mark as well, I just wanted to assure you "Mark
> No-Lastname" is someone else. I always use my full name when posting,
> and would never be so rude to begin with.
>
> Thanks for all the good work so far DLTK people!
>
> Mark *Melvin*
>
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 05:55:23 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark,
>>
>> This is my first and definitively last message in reply to Mark
>> No-Lastname's posts to DLTK newsgroup at least until he is writing
>> anonymously.
>>
>> DLTK is probably youngest project among the projects released to
>> Europa. DLTK was became Eclipse project at Europa M4 time, and work on
>> Ruby has been *started* from scratch in the February, 2007. So few
>> things to consider:
>>
>> 1) What level of completeness you're expecting from one of the
>> youngest Eclipse projects in terms of stability and documentation
>> availability? You may "suggest" me write-docs-first or any other
>> "clever" idea, but I'll refuse them at least for the reason below:
>>
>> There are already some early adopters around successfully building
>> solutions on top of DLTK and these adopters much more important to the
>> DLTK ecosystem at the beginning. And their questions and requests will
>> be answered at first - not messages from anonymous individuals like
>> you Mark.
>>
>> 2) Please count DLTK project performance (just a reminder: performance
>> = path / time). Just count on code, features, and ( yes! ;) )
>> documentation we delivered during last six month (we are younger than
>> an year) and just give me a comparison (which looks to be your
>> favorite job) to other projects delivering same amount of relatively
>> stable and conceptually complete things in such a short period of
>> time. I would not going to say "we're great", I just would like to say
>> "we're not so bad".
>>
>> 3) What is your goal Mark?
>>
>> If the goal is to find other leaders to the project - just find them.
>> If your goal is to have that documentation, just write it or just pay
>> to someone if you can't live without it. Hint: send a message to
>> newsgroup with a subject "I'd like to sponsor documentation for the
>> DLTK project".
>>
>> Version numbers: yes released version is 0.9. Everyone subscribed to
>> dltk-dev was updated about this change and reasons behind.
>> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dltk-dev/msg00062.html
>>
>> And finally, Mark you're welcome aboard! Project is in lack of such
>> energetic enthusiasts. Just please do anything you can: code, write
>> docs, send us a beer, or just PR (it looks like you're most
>> experienced in this area).
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Andrey Platov
>> Still DLTK Project Lead.
>>
Re: DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11478 is a reply to message #11441] Tue, 24 July 2007 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_melvin.amis.com

Sweet! Thanks!

M.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:06:18 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com> wro=
te:

> Hello Mark,
>
> Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for =

> supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that messages=
=

> from you guys...
>
> In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS. It=
=

> could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but we'll =
=

> make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python to the =

> build process.
>
> Thanks again, and
> Kind Regards,
> Andrey
>
> Mark Melvin wrote:
>> As my name is Mark as well, I just wanted to assure you "Mark =

>> No-Lastname" is someone else. I always use my full name when posting=
, =

>> and would never be so rude to begin with.
>> Thanks for all the good work so far DLTK people!
>> Mark *Melvin*
>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 05:55:23 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com>=
=

>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> This is my first and definitively last message in reply to Mark =

>>> No-Lastname's posts to DLTK newsgroup at least until he is writing =

>>> anonymously.
>>>
>>> DLTK is probably youngest project among the projects released to =

>>> Europa. DLTK was became Eclipse project at Europa M4 time, and work =
on =

>>> Ruby has been *started* from scratch in the February, 2007. So few =

>>> things to consider:
>>>
>>> 1) What level of completeness you're expecting from one of the =

>>> youngest Eclipse projects in terms of stability and documentation =

>>> availability? You may "suggest" me write-docs-first or any other =

>>> "clever" idea, but I'll refuse them at least for the reason below:
>>>
>>> There are already some early adopters around successfully building =

>>> solutions on top of DLTK and these adopters much more important to t=
he =

>>> DLTK ecosystem at the beginning. And their questions and requests wi=
ll =

>>> be answered at first - not messages from anonymous individuals like =
=

>>> you Mark.
>>>
>>> 2) Please count DLTK project performance (just a reminder: performan=
ce =

>>> =3D path / time). Just count on code, features, and ( yes! ;) ) =

>>> documentation we delivered during last six month (we are younger tha=
n =

>>> an year) and just give me a comparison (which looks to be your =

>>> favorite job) to other projects delivering same amount of relatively=
=

>>> stable and conceptually complete things in such a short period of =

>>> time. I would not going to say "we're great", I just would like to s=
ay =

>>> "we're not so bad".
>>>
>>> 3) What is your goal Mark?
>>>
>>> If the goal is to find other leaders to the project - just find them=
.. =

>>> If your goal is to have that documentation, just write it or just pa=
y =

>>> to someone if you can't live without it. Hint: send a message to =

>>> newsgroup with a subject "I'd like to sponsor documentation for the =
=

>>> DLTK project".
>>>
>>> Version numbers: yes released version is 0.9. Everyone subscribed to=
=

>>> dltk-dev was updated about this change and reasons behind. =

>>> http://dev.eclipse.org/mhonarc/lists/dltk-dev/msg00062.html
>>>
>>> And finally, Mark you're welcome aboard! Project is in lack of such =
=

>>> energetic enthusiasts. Just please do anything you can: code, write =
=

>>> docs, send us a beer, or just PR (it looks like you're most =

>>> experienced in this area).
>>>
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Andrey Platov
>>> Still DLTK Project Lead.
>>>



-- =

Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11515 is a reply to message #11441] Wed, 25 July 2007 18:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: byron.shelden.gmail.com

Glad to see the Python code available.
It took me some time to figure out how to get it to run (this being the
first time I've tried to run an eclipse project checked out from CVS) but
it appears to work.

How is the legal process coming along (I have little knowledge of how that
process works)?

Andrey Platov wrote:

> Hello Mark,

> Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for
> supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that messages
> from you guys...

> In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS. It
> could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but we'll
> make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python to the
> build process.

> Thanks again, and
> Kind Regards,
> Andrey

-- thread snipped --

-- Byron Shelden
Re: DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11551 is a reply to message #11515] Thu, 26 July 2007 06:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrei Sobolev is currently offline Andrei SobolevFriend
Messages: 72
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Byron,

> Glad to see the Python code available.
> It took me some time to figure out how to get it to run (this being the
> first time I've tried to run an eclipse project checked out from CVS)
> but it appears to work.
>
> How is the legal process coming along (I have little knowledge of how
> that process works)?

We already pass Eclipse IP legal stuff.
(https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1135)

Andrei.
>
> Andrey Platov wrote:
>
>> Hello Mark,
>
>> Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for
>> supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that messages
>> from you guys...
>
>> In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS. It
>> could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but we'll
>> make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python to the
>> build process.
>
>> Thanks again, and
>> Kind Regards,
>> Andrey
>
> -- thread snipped --
>
> -- Byron Shelden
>
Re: DLTK project status and health (An open letter to Mark) [message #11588 is a reply to message #11551] Thu, 26 July 2007 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: byron.shelden.gmail.com

asobolev wrote:

> Hi Byron,

>> How is the legal process coming along (I have little knowledge of how
>> that process works)?

> We already pass Eclipse IP legal stuff.
> (https://dev.eclipse.org/ipzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1135)

Not allowed in there: "Only Eclipse committers can use IPZilla." but good
to know.

-- Byron Shelden
Python Support [message #13109 is a reply to message #11478] Tue, 14 August 2007 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_melvin.amis.com

Hi Andrey,

I spent some time today playing with the Python tools and I even tried to
hook up the activestate debugger by writing a debug plugin similar to the
Tcl implementation. However, I found pretty much everything else was
broken. ;) I can't even get the parser to succeed as it keeps throwing
NPEs. I'd like to dive in and help on this but my gut feeling is that you
guys need to make at least the core functional first, or I'll just be
spinning my wheels on fundamentals.

Do you know roughly when you are going to be updating the Python plugins
to work with the latest core so that what is checked in at least
functions? I could look at helping out with debug support (and other
things) after that.

BTW - what do you use for your Continuous Integration build? That's a
pretty swanky download page. ;)

Thanks,
Mark.


On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:11:28 -0400, Mark Melvin <mark_melvin@amis.com>
wrote:

> Sweet! Thanks!
>
> M.
>
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:06:18 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Mark,
>>
>> Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for
>> supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that messages
>> from you guys...
>>
>> In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS. It
>> could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but we'll
>> make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python to the
>> build process.
>>
>> Thanks again, and
>> Kind Regards,
>> Andrey
>>
Re: Python Support [message #13139 is a reply to message #13109] Tue, 14 August 2007 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jae Gangemi is currently offline Jae GangemiFriend
Messages: 28
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
there are currently outstanding patches that have yet to be applied
that should resolve the issues you are seeing.

see: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=195753


On 2007-08-14 15:29:36 -0400, "Mark Melvin" <mark_melvin@amis.com> said:

> Hi Andrey,
>
> I spent some time today playing with the Python tools and I even tried
> to hook up the activestate debugger by writing a debug plugin similar
> to the Tcl implementation. However, I found pretty much everything
> else was broken. ;) I can't even get the parser to succeed as it
> keeps throwing NPEs. I'd like to dive in and help on this but my gut
> feeling is that you guys need to make at least the core functional
> first, or I'll just be spinning my wheels on fundamentals.
>
> Do you know roughly when you are going to be updating the Python
> plugins to work with the latest core so that what is checked in at
> least functions? I could look at helping out with debug support (and
> other things) after that.
>
> BTW - what do you use for your Continuous Integration build? That's a
> pretty swanky download page. ;)
>
> Thanks,
> Mark.
>
>
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:11:28 -0400, Mark Melvin <mark_melvin@amis.com> wrote:
>
>> Sweet! Thanks!
>>
>> M.
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:06:18 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Mark,
>>>
>>> Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for
>>> supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that messages
>>> from you guys...
>>>
>>> In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS. It
>>> could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but we'll
>>> make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python to the
>>> build process.
>>>
>>> Thanks again, and
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Andrey


--
-jae
Re: Python Support [message #13167 is a reply to message #13139] Tue, 14 August 2007 22:20 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: mark_melvin.amis.com

Aha! Thanks for the tip. I'll keep watching.

M.

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:26:41 -0400, Jae Gangemi <jgangemi@gmail.com> wro=
te:

>
> there are currently outstanding patches that have yet to be applied =
=

> that should resolve the issues you are seeing.
>
> see: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=3D195753
>
>
> On 2007-08-14 15:29:36 -0400, "Mark Melvin" <mark_melvin@amis.com> sai=
d:
>
>> Hi Andrey,
>> I spent some time today playing with the Python tools and I even tri=
ed =

>> to hook up the activestate debugger by writing a debug plugin simila=
r =

>> to the Tcl implementation. However, I found pretty much everything =
=

>> else was broken. ;) I can't even get the parser to succeed as it =

>> keeps throwing NPEs. I'd like to dive in and help on this but my gu=
t =

>> feeling is that you guys need to make at least the core functional =

>> first, or I'll just be spinning my wheels on fundamentals.
>> Do you know roughly when you are going to be updating the Python =

>> plugins to work with the latest core so that what is checked in at =

>> least functions? I could look at helping out with debug support (an=
d =

>> other things) after that.
>> BTW - what do you use for your Continuous Integration build? That's=
=

>> a pretty swanky download page. ;)
>> Thanks,
>> Mark.
>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:11:28 -0400, Mark Melvin =

>> <mark_melvin@amis.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Sweet! Thanks!
>>> M.
>>> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:06:18 -0400, Andrey Platov <andrey@xored.com=
> =

>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Mark,
>>>> Thank you, other Mark (Howe) and everyone around very much for =

>>>> supporting messages. Of course we did never thought that that =

>>>> messages from you guys...
>>>> In the meantime we put Python implementation under Eclipse.org CVS=
.. =

>>>> It could be little bit incompatible with latest DLTK Core API, but=
=

>>>> we'll make it runnable during next days as well as will add Python=
=

>>>> to the build process.
>>>> Thanks again, and
>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>> Andrey
>
>
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