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Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10384]

Thu, 13 January 2005 15:45

Eclipse Webmaster

Messages: 607353
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Greetings,

We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/

As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
these goals in mind:

* Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
* Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
* Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
* Make it easier to find downloads for other projects

Here is the new page:

http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php

PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
on the right-hand side of the prototype page.

Providing Feedback
You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
comments:

* Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
* ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
subject line "[downloads]"

Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
feedback is important to us!

--

Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10419 is a reply to message #10384]

Thu, 13 January 2005 16:19

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: gwatson.lanl.gov

Great work - a huge improvement over the current downloads page. I would
make the following comment though. It's not clear from the headings what
you actually need to get eclipse installed (although the sidebar does
help this somewhat). Is it really necessary for the main headings to be
the project names, since you have a link to the project home anyway.
What about something like below?

Regards,

Greg

----------------
eclipse dowloads

_Welcome_
....

_Eclipse_Platform_SDK_

The Eclipse Platform SDK is the main Eclipse development environment,
and includes the Java Development Tools and the Plug-in Development
Environment.

Downloads | Project Home
Platform: Downloads | Project Home

_Eclipse_Plug-ins_

Eclipse plug-ins are additional functionality that can be downloaded and
installed into the main Eclipse Platform. The following plug-ins have
been developed as part of Eclipse Foundation projects (see the
Development Process for more information.)

_Eclipse_Tools_Project_

Downloads | Project Home

_Plug-ins_

C/C++ Language Support: Downloads | Project Home

EMF: Downloads | Project Home

...

_Eclipse_Web_Tools_Platform_Project_

...

WebMaster wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
>
> Here is the new page:
>
> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
> implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
> pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
> on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>
>
> Providing Feedback
> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
> comments:
>
> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
> subject line "[downloads]"
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10452 is a reply to message #10419]

Thu, 13 January 2005 18:36

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: amnon.netvision.net.il

Yes, pretty nice compared to the old one but I agree with Greg.

I would expect to see some useful configuration arrangements, i.e. "For
Java Development download A,B,C". These would have a link to all the
necessary components. Another one would be for the WebTools, etc.

I can say that when I just started with Eclipse a short time ago the
first thing I had to find out was what exactly I needed. There are
several projects with different audiences.

Thanks,
Amnon

Greg Watson wrote:
> Great work - a huge improvement over the current downloads page. I would
> make the following comment though. It's not clear from the headings what
> you actually need to get eclipse installed (although the sidebar does
> help this somewhat). Is it really necessary for the main headings to be
> the project names, since you have a link to the project home anyway.
> What about something like below?
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
> ----------------
> eclipse dowloads
>
> _Welcome_
> ...
>
> _Eclipse_Platform_SDK_
>
> The Eclipse Platform SDK is the main Eclipse development environment,
> and includes the Java Development Tools and the Plug-in Development
> Environment.
>
> Downloads | Project Home
> Platform: Downloads | Project Home
>
> _Eclipse_Plug-ins_
>
> Eclipse plug-ins are additional functionality that can be downloaded and
> installed into the main Eclipse Platform. The following plug-ins have
> been developed as part of Eclipse Foundation projects (see the
> Development Process for more information.)
>
> _Eclipse_Tools_Project_
>
> Downloads | Project Home
>
> _Plug-ins_
>
> C/C++ Language Support: Downloads | Project Home
>
> EMF: Downloads | Project Home
>
> ...
>
> _Eclipse_Web_Tools_Platform_Project_
>
> ...
>
> WebMaster wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the
>> Community's feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old
>> downloads page seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>>
>> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed
>> with these goals in mind:
>>
>> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
>> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
>> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
>> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>>
>>
>> Here is the new page:
>>
>> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>>
>> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is
>> being implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the
>> "Please pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows)
>> (85 MB) link on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>>
>>
>> Providing Feedback
>> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit
>> your comments:
>>
>> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
>> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
>> subject line "[downloads]"
>>
>>
>> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
>> feedback is important to us!
>>
>>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10484 is a reply to message #10419]

Thu, 13 January 2005 18:36

Eclipse User

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10516 is a reply to message #10384]

Thu, 13 January 2005 18:44

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: see.signature.for.email.address

Some feedback ...

The first group of links under the heading "Eclipse Project" are
arranged like this:

Eclipse Project
_Downloads_ | _Project home_
_Platform: Downloads_ | _Project home_

The first two links point to the same targets as the second two. This
is slightly confusing.

My biggest issue with the page is that there's only three complete
sentences on the page! That's not enough. The first sentence is a
friendly welcome, but it's devoid of information. The second directs
the user to make a choice based on what he wishes to download but does
not give the user any information to help him map his "wish to download"
to one of the links on the page. The third sentence diverts the
uncertain user to a completely different page (confusingly referred to
as "this page"), with no explaination as to why leaving the current page
will help reduce his uncertainty.

Also, the third sentence in the Welcome section tells the user that a
different page has the Eclipse SDK, but the sidebar on the right has
links to the Eclipse SDK. Confusing.

I hope this helps.
--
Francis Litterio
franl <at> world . std . com

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10549 is a reply to message #10384]

Thu, 13 January 2005 21:36

Eclipse User

WebMaster wrote:
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects

Overall I like it, but my concern is that the SDK links on the right
aren't prominent enough. Many new users mistakenly download the
Platform build when they're thinking of Eclipse solely as a Java
IDE. New users don't understand why they need the SDK download and
they often skip past reading the part recommending what to do when
they're not sure which download to get. Could the SDK links be
moved into the center above even the Eclipse Project section?

--
- Nitin

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10582 is a reply to message #10384]

Fri, 14 January 2005 00:38

Eclipse User

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:45:50 -0500, WebMaster <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote:

>
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!
>

Nice job. I have a suggestion and a (minor) question.

I've always been surprised the eclipse update site is not made more
prominent ... I'd think "we" would want to encourage newcomers especially
to take advantage of that for "extras". I'd suggest at least a short
paragraph reminding/describing that feature.

Just wondering ... how do you calculate "most popular downloads"? I've always heard
we can't really count downloads, due to mirrors?

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10615 is a reply to message #10384]

Fri, 14 January 2005 02:46

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: daniel.megert.gmx.net

WebMaster wrote:

> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed
> with these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!
>
Good progress, especially that other projects are on the download page
now as well.

To me the stuff on the right-hand side should be more prominent and I
think the page contains too much different downloads with not enough
help to pick the correct download. Finding the Eclipse SDK examples
might be harder than it is already now for new users: almost every week
a user asks how to get the Eclipse SDK examples.

What about a guided step-by-step download (e.g. with combo boxes)
instead of merging everything on a page? This would result in an
identical download path for all products. In the prototype when I click
on the download link for a project I'm taken to individually crafted
download pages.

Dani

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10648 is a reply to message #10615]

Fri, 14 January 2005 05:57

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: pascal.ibm.canada

I like the guided approach suggested here. This is really good and easy
to understand for newcomers. Whether or not we go down that path, having
all the download pages uniform would certainly help.

PaScaL

Daniel Megert wrote:
> WebMaster wrote:
>
>> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed
>> with these goals in mind:
>>
>> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
>> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
>> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
>> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>>
>> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
>> feedback is important to us!
>>
> Good progress, especially that other projects are on the download page
> now as well.
>
> To me the stuff on the right-hand side should be more prominent and I
> think the page contains too much different downloads with not enough
> help to pick the correct download. Finding the Eclipse SDK examples
> might be harder than it is already now for new users: almost every week
> a user asks how to get the Eclipse SDK examples.
>
> What about a guided step-by-step download (e.g. with combo boxes)
> instead of merging everything on a page? This would result in an
> identical download path for all products. In the prototype when I click
> on the download link for a project I'm taken to individually crafted
> download pages.
>
> Dani

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #10744 is a reply to message #10384]

Fri, 14 January 2005 08:27

Eclipse Webmaster

Messages: 607353
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Some feedback I've received in my Inbox:

Sam wrote:
Excellent! This new page takes me to a source for the USA. The other
one was a bit of a mess. I recently downloaded 3.0.1 after using 2.1
for years. My download experience was not that great with 3.0.1. After
finally finding a site, the download did not give me the complete
package and I spent several days trying to figure out why it had no
java. Finally I posted a question on the eclipse.platform news group
and was told that the download should have been 85 - 90 mb. All I had
was 20 something, even though I requested the correct package, Windows 32.

If I could make a suggestion - it would be helpfull if the first thing
downloaded was a cookbook - a simple, one potato, two potato approach
for everything needed: the package Eclipse 3.0.1 and then the 4.01 jre
and whatever else is absolutely. Then once downloaded, I would like it
to tell me where to put the downloads, what to execute, etc. Straight
forward, simple, not a million choices that only a nerd would understand.

The new download page is a real improvement. Great work.

======
Tony wrote:
this is much cleaner! Will I still be able to get
the latest "Milestone Builds"?

Personally, I would like to see a clear separation
between "Official Releases", "Milestone Builds" and
"Nightly Builds". I'd like to see links to all three
in one central location on the page.

Also, I think the download for "Eclipse Platform SDK"
should be featured more prominently. Currently, it is
tucked away on the right side under the "Looking for
Eclipse?" link.

Anyway, this all looks much better than the current
layout.

======
Chris wrote:

I've tried the new site and I like it much better. Already I've
discovered a new set of plugins I want that I was not aware of with the
old page - WST.

=====

Bradley wrote:
its certainly a HUGE improvment, but i think it can still go a bit further.

i think should have a page that says what do you want to download? the
eclipse platform? or plug in's to the ecplise platform? then maybe
even a what lang do you use? java? c/c++? something like that narrows
down the amount of confusing stuff you need to read through to find what
you want.

then you go to teh right page and it clearly lists everything. i think
top 10 downloads is pointless and just adds clutter and i think you
should also get rid of the looking for eclipse bar in the top right hand
corner because under my plan, they have already specified that they are
looking for hte eclipse plaform. i say that even though that would have
made my life much easier a month ago! that little box is nice, but once
you see the top of this page
http://download.eclipse.org/downloads/drops/R-3.0.1-20040916 1125/index.php
it becomes redundant.

i think it would also be cool to explain some of those acronynms.
personally, i'm not a life long programmer and i'm new to ecplise so i
have no idea what they are. if ecplise is to grow people like me need
to figure it out. we might say, as i did the frist time i tried to use
this thing about a year ago, if its this hard to get, it must be super
hard to use! i had it backwards though! ;-)

also, i still think taht you should consider having the mirrors, host
bit torrent streams. that way others can share the burden, not just the
mirrrors. most geeks that are geeky enough to program and use an open
source IDE also use BT.

--

Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11098 is a reply to message #10384]

Fri, 14 January 2005 09:31

Eclipse User

Hi,

Great improvement. One minor suggestion though - the mirrors page is too
long. The majority of people will have to scroll down a page or two to get
the mirror they want or the main download site. By changing the formatting
to reduce the empty space or using two columns, this information could
easily fit on a single page and be much quicker/easier to use.

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11102 is a reply to message #10384]

Fri, 14 January 2005 10:43

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: myname(with.between names).lombardisoftware.com

WebMaster wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
>
> Here is the new page:
The "Looking for Eclipse?" Section is for me the most important addition. I
constantly get questions from people on which download they should pick on
the normal download page once they've reached the right version download
page. Although downloading WinXP/http/SDK is the first link on the page,
the amount of links are pretty overwhelming for someone who is not familiar
with the system. Great job!

Can a similar section be made for the current 3.1 Milestone releases?

>
> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
> implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
> pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
> on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>
>
> Providing Feedback
> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
> comments:
>
> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
> subject line "[downloads]"
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11124 is a reply to message #10582]

Fri, 14 January 2005 12:04

Eclipse User

The answer is pretty simple. It is an educated guess. We cannot claim that
these are the "top ten" with any degree of mathematical certainty.

"David Williams" <david_williams@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:opskku97m7ac05ss@news.eclipse.org...
<<...snip...>>
> Just wondering ... how do you calculate "most popular downloads"? I've
> always heard
> we can't really count downloads, due to mirrors?

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11144 is a reply to message #10452]

Fri, 14 January 2005 12:49

Eclipse User

Amnon,

We agree. But doing what you are requesting will require some additional
effort. And in some cases may require creating download packages which
currently do not exist.

Our thinking was that we would get this version out and then look for
incremental improvements. Does that make sense?

"Amnon I. Govrin" <amnon@netvision.net.il> wrote in message
news:cs70n1$cqe$1@www.eclipse.org...
> I would expect to see some useful configuration arrangements, i.e. "For
> Java Development download A,B,C". These would have a link to all the
> necessary components. Another one would be for the WebTools, etc.

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11180 is a reply to message #10384]

Fri, 14 January 2005 18:50

Eclipse User

really great work!
but one thing i'm missing: updatesite references on the download page!
not for the default eclipse updates, but for different build types for
every project. at least for stream stable builds. the most comfortable
thing would be, if the eclipse user can configure for which kind of
build he wants to get informed by the update manager (default: release).
for users like me it's much more comfortable to get informed by my
platform as to search every week if there are new stable updates out
there. from my experience stream stable builds are stable enough to
distribute via update site.
we handle it like that and our customers like to have comfortable access
to non final, but stable released builds with the newest features.

hope my chief is generous enough to meet you at eclipsecon =)
greets daniel

> Greetings,
>
> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
>
> Here is the new page:
>
> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
> implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
> pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
> on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>
>
> Providing Feedback
> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
> comments:
>
> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
> subject line "[downloads]"
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11191 is a reply to message #10384]

Sat, 15 January 2005 10:37

Eclipse User

I definitely like the format of the new downloads page. It makes it easier
to find information
on various plugins and other eclipse related projects.

However, if I understand you correctly and we will be forced to choose a
mirror site, I
definitely DON'T like that. I've had nothing but trouble when I try to use
mirror sites for
eclipse. I want to continue to be able to choose the home site. Thanks.

Steve Buroff

"WebMaster" <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote in message
news:cs6mlq$8gr$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Greetings,
> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
>
> Here is the new page:
>
> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
> implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
> pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
> on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>
>
> Providing Feedback
> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
> comments:
>
> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the subject
> line "[downloads]"
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your feedback
> is important to us!
>
>
> --
>
> Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
> Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
> View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11198 is a reply to message #11191]

Sat, 15 January 2005 13:04

Eclipse Webmaster

Messages: 607353
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Steve,

I understand your concern, because the current downloads page
(http://www.eclipse.org/downloads) invites you to pick a mirror before
selecting files you want to download. Some mirrors don't display the
download pages correctly, some don't display the download pages at all,
and some FTP mirrors don't have all the files.

With this new layout, you will be asked to pick a mirror *after*
selecting a file to download. The mirrors listed will be ones known to
have the file you have requested, so trust me, downloading from the main
site will be virtually obsolete. The main site will be listed at the
bottom of the page for each download, but I don't believe you'll ever
need it again (unless you live in Canada).

Try one of the three "Looking for Eclipse" links on the right of the
prototype page, then try the Graphical Editor Framework (GEF) link in
the Top-10 (#6), and you'll see what I mean. The GEF list is much
shorter, as not all mirrors have the GEF files.

Denis

Steven Buroff wrote:
> I definitely like the format of the new downloads page. It makes it easier
> to find information
> on various plugins and other eclipse related projects.
>
> However, if I understand you correctly and we will be forced to choose a
> mirror site, I
> definitely DON'T like that. I've had nothing but trouble when I try to use
> mirror sites for
> eclipse. I want to continue to be able to choose the home site. Thanks.
>
> Steve Buroff
>
>
> "WebMaster" <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote in message
> news:cs6mlq$8gr$1@www.eclipse.org...
>
>>Greetings,
>> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
>>feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
>>seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>>
>>As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
>>these goals in mind:
>>
>> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
>> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
>> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
>> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>>
>>
>>Here is the new page:
>>
>>http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>>
>>PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
>>implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
>>pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
>>on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>>
>>
>>Providing Feedback
>>You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
>>comments:
>>
>> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
>> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the subject
>>line "[downloads]"
>>
>>
>>Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your feedback
>>is important to us!
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
>>Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
>>View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html
>
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11211 is a reply to message #11098]

Sat, 15 January 2005 13:11

Eclipse Webmaster

Messages: 607353
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Tim,

The number of mirrors varies from file to file, but I agree that the
list can get quite long. Perhaps the next prototype will have mirrors
grouped by continent, as so:

Europe
Some site (Germany)
Some site (Poland)
Some site (UK)
Some site (UK)

North America
Some site (Canada)
Some site (USA)
Some site (USA)

This will take much less space on the page, and still allow you to pick
a mirror close to home.

Denis

Tim deBoer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Great improvement. One minor suggestion though - the mirrors page is too
> long. The majority of people will have to scroll down a page or two to get
> the mirror they want or the main download site. By changing the formatting
> to reduce the empty space or using two columns, this information could
> easily fit on a single page and be much quicker/easier to use.
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11391 is a reply to message #11198]

Sun, 16 January 2005 09:51

Eclipse User

Right. But if Steve (or others) really really want to use the eclipse home
site, that will remain on the list, although at the bottom. So you at not
*forced* to pick a mirror site.

"Eclipse WebMaster" <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote in message
news:csblvg$pok$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Steve,
>
> I understand your concern, because the current downloads page
> (http://www.eclipse.org/downloads) invites you to pick a mirror before
> selecting files you want to download. Some mirrors don't display the
> download pages correctly, some don't display the download pages at all,
> and some FTP mirrors don't have all the files.
>
> With this new layout, you will be asked to pick a mirror *after* selecting
> a file to download. The mirrors listed will be ones known to have the file
> you have requested, so trust me, downloading from the main site will be
> virtually obsolete. The main site will be listed at the bottom of the page
> for each download, but I don't believe you'll ever need it again (unless
> you live in Canada).
>
> Try one of the three "Looking for Eclipse" links on the right of the
> prototype page, then try the Graphical Editor Framework (GEF) link in the
> Top-10 (#6), and you'll see what I mean. The GEF list is much shorter, as
> not all mirrors have the GEF files.
>
> Denis
>
>
> Steven Buroff wrote:
>> I definitely like the format of the new downloads page. It makes it
>> easier to find information
>> on various plugins and other eclipse related projects.
>>
>> However, if I understand you correctly and we will be forced to choose a
>> mirror site, I
>> definitely DON'T like that. I've had nothing but trouble when I try to
>> use mirror sites for
>> eclipse. I want to continue to be able to choose the home site. Thanks.
>>
>> Steve Buroff
>>
>>
>> "WebMaster" <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote in message
>> news:cs6mlq$8gr$1@www.eclipse.org...
>>
>>>Greetings,
>>> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
>>> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
>>> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>>>
>>>As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
>>>these goals in mind:
>>>
>>> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
>>> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
>>> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
>>> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>>>
>>>
>>>Here is the new page:
>>>
>>>http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>>>
>>>PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
>>>implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
>>>pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
>>>on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>>>
>>>
>>>Providing Feedback
>>>You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
>>>comments:
>>>
>>> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
>>> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the subject
>>> line "[downloads]"
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
>>>feedback is important to us!
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
>>>Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
>>>View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html
>>
>>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11428 is a reply to message #11198]

Sun, 16 January 2005 10:00

Eclipse User

I checked it out and you are right. The main site is still available and
displaying the list
of mirror sites AFTER choosing the file to download is definitely an
improvement.
I like it. Thanks.

Steve

"Eclipse WebMaster" <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote in message
news:csblvg$pok$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Steve,
>
> I understand your concern, because the current downloads page
> (http://www.eclipse.org/downloads) invites you to pick a mirror before
> selecting files you want to download. Some mirrors don't display the
> download pages correctly, some don't display the download pages at all,
> and some FTP mirrors don't have all the files.
>
> With this new layout, you will be asked to pick a mirror *after* selecting
> a file to download. The mirrors listed will be ones known to have the file
> you have requested, so trust me, downloading from the main site will be
> virtually obsolete. The main site will be listed at the bottom of the page
> for each download, but I don't believe you'll ever need it again (unless
> you live in Canada).
>
> Try one of the three "Looking for Eclipse" links on the right of the
> prototype page, then try the Graphical Editor Framework (GEF) link in the
> Top-10 (#6), and you'll see what I mean. The GEF list is much shorter, as
> not all mirrors have the GEF files.
>
> Denis
>
>
> Steven Buroff wrote:
>> I definitely like the format of the new downloads page. It makes it
>> easier to find information
>> on various plugins and other eclipse related projects.
>>
>> However, if I understand you correctly and we will be forced to choose a
>> mirror site, I
>> definitely DON'T like that. I've had nothing but trouble when I try to
>> use mirror sites for
>> eclipse. I want to continue to be able to choose the home site. Thanks.
>>
>> Steve Buroff
>>
>>
>> "WebMaster" <webmaster@eclipse.org> wrote in message
>> news:cs6mlq$8gr$1@www.eclipse.org...
>>
>>>Greetings,
>>> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
>>> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
>>> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>>>
>>>As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
>>>these goals in mind:
>>>
>>> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
>>> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
>>> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
>>> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>>>
>>>
>>>Here is the new page:
>>>
>>>http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>>>
>>>PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
>>>implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
>>>pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
>>>on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>>>
>>>
>>>Providing Feedback
>>>You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
>>>comments:
>>>
>>> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
>>> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the subject
>>> line "[downloads]"
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
>>>feedback is important to us!
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
>>>Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
>>>View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html
>>
>>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #11757 is a reply to message #10384]

Mon, 17 January 2005 11:40

Eclipse Webmaster

Messages: 607353
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

More feedback received in my Inbox:

Patric wrote:
It looks good. Maybe now I can take a look at what else Eclipse has to
offer.

================

Jardin wrote:
Good job, it’s easy now to find what you want to download.

================

Herojoker wrote:
The new download page is much better than the old one.
I think there is just one error. The download for the eclipse SDK is
labeled as "Platform".
You should mark it as SDK (with JDT and all the other nice plugins).

Thanks for all your feedback so far!

WebMaster wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the Community's
> feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old downloads page
> seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>
> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed with
> these goals in mind:
>
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>
>
> Here is the new page:
>
> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>
> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is being
> implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the "Please
> pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows) (85 MB) link
> on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>
>
> Providing Feedback
> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit your
> comments:
>
> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
> subject line "[downloads]"
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!
>
>

--

Eclipse WebMaster - webmaster@eclipse.org
Questions? Consult the FAQ at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/faq.html
View my status at http://www.eclipse.org/webmaster/main.html

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #12501 is a reply to message #10384]

Wed, 19 January 2005 20:18

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

[posting via http-news-gateway (over anonymous proxy to circumvent
identification and blocking)]

-

WebMaster wrote:
[...]
> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
> Here is the new page:
> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
[...]

this page is very inconvenient and inefficient.

But as it's just a prototype, I'll not go into detail.

-

An ideal download page should have exactly two entries:

eclipse.minimal (OSGI framework & updater).
Full Download Page (page autogenerated out of an project model)

after download of "eclipse.minimal", the updatemanager informs the user
and guides through the process of extending eclipse automaticly (including
selection of OS'es etc.)

eclipse.minimal can be started with a command-line argument, pointing to
an update-site, thus 3rd party tools providers can launch _their_ eclipse.

Mirror handling is transparent [need no user action], as one could expect
it from a product from a consortium of major IT companies.

> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> feedback is important to us!

I know that my feedback is important to you (Eclipse Foundation &
Community).

I just wonder how many time it takes until you realize this.

-

You should now drop the (privacy-policy violating) IP-blocking, thus I can
provide feedback conveniently via nntp.

Thanks.

..

--
http://lazaridis.com

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #12859 is a reply to message #12501]

Fri, 21 January 2005 08:04

Eclipse User

ilias wrote:
> An ideal download page should have exactly two entries:
>
> eclipse.minimal (OSGI framework & updater).
> Full Download Page (page autogenerated out of an project model)
>
> after download of "eclipse.minimal", the updatemanager informs the user
> and guides through the process of extending eclipse automaticly
> (including selection of OS'es etc.)
>
> eclipse.minimal can be started with a command-line argument, pointing to
> an update-site, thus 3rd party tools providers can launch _their_ eclipse.
>
> Mirror handling is transparent [need no user action], as one could
> expect it from a product from a consortium of major IT companies.
>

This process sounds painfully similar to installing a new Operating
System and then spending hours patching it to bring it up to date.
To newcomers looking for the Eclipse Java IDE, the disctinction
between "minimal" and what they actually want will be lost. And, at
least so far, the model for larger 3rd party tool providers is to
provide a branded Eclipse platform combined with their plugins--as
IBM and Genuitec have done.

--
- Nitin

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #12868 is a reply to message #12501]

Fri, 21 January 2005 10:58

Eclipse User

Way too much tinker-factor, especially for newcomers.
Newcomers need integrated packages that they know will work with minimal
brain-damage. They want to learn how to use it, not build it.

"ilias" <ilias@lazaridis.com> wrote in message
news:csn0tt$5o8$1@www.eclipse.org...
> [posting via http-news-gateway (over anonymous proxy to circumvent
> identification and blocking)]
>
> -
>
> WebMaster wrote:
> [...]
> > * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
> > * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
> > * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
> > * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
> > Here is the new page:
> > http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
> [...]
>
> this page is very inconvenient and inefficient.
>
> But as it's just a prototype, I'll not go into detail.
>
> -
>
> An ideal download page should have exactly two entries:
>
> eclipse.minimal (OSGI framework & updater).
> Full Download Page (page autogenerated out of an project model)
>
> after download of "eclipse.minimal", the updatemanager informs the user
> and guides through the process of extending eclipse automaticly (including
> selection of OS'es etc.)
>
> eclipse.minimal can be started with a command-line argument, pointing to
> an update-site, thus 3rd party tools providers can launch _their_ eclipse.
>
> Mirror handling is transparent [need no user action], as one could expect
> it from a product from a consortium of major IT companies.
>
> > Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
> > feedback is important to us!
>
> I know that my feedback is important to you (Eclipse Foundation &
> Community).
>
> I just wonder how many time it takes until you realize this.
>
> -
>
> You should now drop the (privacy-policy violating) IP-blocking, thus I can
> provide feedback conveniently via nntp.
>
> Thanks.
>
> .
>
> --
> http://lazaridis.com
>
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #13106 is a reply to message #12859]

Sat, 22 January 2005 13:50

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

[http over anonymous proxy]

-

Nitin Dahyabhai wrote:

> ilias wrote:
>> An ideal download page should have exactly two entries:
>>
>> eclipse.minimal (OSGI framework & updater).
>> Full Download Page (page autogenerated out of an project model)

[clarification: like todays download page, but autogenerated]

>> after download of "eclipse.minimal", the updatemanager informs the user
>> and guides through the process of extending eclipse automaticly
>> (including selection of OS'es etc.)
>>
>> eclipse.minimal can be started with a command-line argument, pointing to
>> an update-site, thus 3rd party tools providers can launch _their_ eclipse.
>>
>> Mirror handling is transparent [need no user action], as one could
>> expect it from a product from a consortium of major IT companies.

> This process sounds painfully similar to installing a new Operating
> System and then spending hours patching it to bring it up to date.

Eclipse starts (with the standard update site), shows some product-bundles
and the user selects.
[x] JAVA development
[x] C++ development
[x] Visual Modeling Support
[x] ...

The combinations are too much to provide bundled downloads for everything.

> To newcomers looking for the Eclipse Java IDE, the disctinction
> between "minimal" and what they actually want will be lost.

Call "eclipse.minimal" "eclipse.online-installer" or similar.

And: The newcomvers can still use the full download page (like the current
one) and plumb themselves.

> And, at
> least so far, the model for larger 3rd party tool providers is to
> provide a branded Eclipse platform combined with their plugins--as
> IBM and Genuitec have done.

This model is not flexible and automated enouth and will run into
problems, as more and more vendors produce solutions.

Using the suggested solution
* a vendor could use eclipse.minimal
* points to his update-site
* update-site contains default-product
* which is a set of features.
* update-site contains optional features & products

..

--
http://lazaridis.com

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #13135 is a reply to message #12868]

Sat, 22 January 2005 14:40

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: ilias.lazaridis.com

[http via anonymous proxy]

-

Slamlander wrote:

> Way too much tinker-factor, especially for newcomers.
> Newcomers need integrated packages that they know will work with minimal
> brain-damage. They want to learn how to use it, not build it.

It is not about building, but about downloading.

see my response to "Nitin Dahyabhai".

..

--
http://lazaridis.com

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #13470 is a reply to message #11757]

Mon, 24 January 2005 10:07

Eclipse Webmaster

Messages: 607353
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

.... and more feedback. I'll be compiling all the feedback shortly.

Dev Null wrote:
In the download sections you should write the total file size next to
each link to the download.

===================

Schalk wrote:

Definitely meets all goals set out. Much simpler to get to what you
need. Thanks!

===================

Alain wrote:
It would be nice if, like Apache's, the Eclipse download site chose one
of the geographically closest mirrors and automatically started the
download. Load balancing could be somewhat achieved by weighting mirrors
based on previous auto-selections.

===================

David wrote:

Wow! This is 2^32 times better than the old interface!!! If I had a
64bit system I’m sure it would be 2^64 times better!!!!

I only do updates every few months, and it *WAS* always so hard to
figure out what I should download. The new system is much better, and I
already see three new features I want to try out.

Denis

WebMaster wrote:
> More feedback received in my Inbox:
>
> Patric wrote:
> It looks good. Maybe now I can take a look at what else Eclipse has to
> offer.
>
> ================
>
> Jardin wrote:
> Good job, it’s easy now to find what you want to download.
>
> ================
>
> Herojoker wrote:
> The new download page is much better than the old one.
> I think there is just one error. The download for the eclipse SDK is
> labeled as "Platform".
> You should mark it as SDK (with JDT and all the other nice plugins).
>
>
> Thanks for all your feedback so far!
>
>
> WebMaster wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>> We've developed a new downloads page, and we'd like the
>> Community's feedback! This prototype is intended to replace the old
>> downloads page seen here: http://eclipse.org/downloads/
>>
>> As a result of Community feedback, the prototype page was designed
>> with these goals in mind:
>>
>> * Make it easier to download Eclipse, especially for newcomers
>> * Make it easier to find files on eclipse.org
>> * Make it easier to find a mirror to download files
>> * Make it easier to find downloads for other projects
>>
>>
>> Here is the new page:
>>
>> http://eclipse.org/downloads/index2.php
>>
>> PLEASE NOTE: Not all files will ask you for a mirror site. This is
>> being implemented progressively across eclipse.org. You can view the
>> "Please pick a mirror" page by clicking The Eclipse 3.0.1 (Windows)
>> (85 MB) link on the right-hand side of the prototype page.
>>
>>
>> Providing Feedback
>> You feedback is welcome. Please use the following methods to submit
>> your comments:
>>
>> * Preferred: Post a reply message to this newsgroup.
>> * ALternate: Send an e-mail to webmaster@eclipse.org with the
>> subject line "[downloads]"
>>
>>
>> Thank you for taking the time to try the new downloads page. Your
>> feedback is important to us!
>>
>>
>
>

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #13532 is a reply to message #10384]

Mon, 24 January 2005 16:42

Eclipse User

The new download page is a vast improvement, much prettier, leverages
the mirrors and exposes all the projects

For the "Eclipse Project" item, the JDT and PDE are not mentioned, just
the platform. There should be links to these project web pages, but
arranged so that only one download link is showing since they share the
same download page. Also, there should be some indication that this is
where the RCP drops can be downloaded, since it's not immediately evident.

It's rather overwhelming for the new user to sift through all the links
on this page and determine what they want. Also, all users have to look
at each project page individually to determine the versions of
components they need to download that will actually work together. It
would be great if you could click a few boxes, for instance, operating
system, components etc, and identify the versions required that will
interoperate.

Kim

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #21164 is a reply to message #13532]

Thu, 07 July 2005 16:26

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: user.domain.invalid

Kim Moir wrote:
> The new download page is a vast improvement, much prettier, leverages
> the mirrors and exposes all the projects
>
> For the "Eclipse Project" item, the JDT and PDE are not mentioned, just
> the platform. There should be links to these project web pages, but
> arranged so that only one download link is showing since they share the
> same download page. Also, there should be some indication that this is
> where the RCP drops can be downloaded, since it's not immediately evident.
>
> It's rather overwhelming for the new user to sift through all the links
> on this page and determine what they want. Also, all users have to look
> at each project page individually to determine the versions of
> components they need to download that will actually work together. It
> would be great if you could click a few boxes, for instance, operating
> system, components etc, and identify the versions required that will
> interoperate.
>
> Kim
>

I can no longer easily get to the nightly builds. Also, the nightly
builds have not been updated in some time.

Regards,
Chris

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #21179 is a reply to message #21164]

Thu, 07 July 2005 16:37

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: john.eclipsefaq.org

user@domain.invalid wrote:
> I can no longer easily get to the nightly builds. Also, the nightly
> builds have not been updated in some time.

There have been no nightly or integration builds of the SDK components
since the 3.1 release. The build machines, and the people who feed them
with code, are taking a rest!
--

Re: Eclipse downloads Page prototype [message #21195 is a reply to message #21179]

Fri, 08 July 2005 10:36

Eclipse User

"John Arthorne" <john@eclipsefaq.org> wrote in message
news:dak3pu$is1$1@news.eclipse.org...
> user@domain.invalid wrote:
>> I can no longer easily get to the nightly builds. Also, the nightly
>> builds have not been updated in some time.
>
> There have been no nightly or integration builds of the SDK components
> since the 3.1 release. The build machines, and the people who feed them
> with code, are taking a rest!
> --

A WELL DESERVED rest. :-)

Steve Buroff

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