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How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 08:03

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: vinod.ramu.wipro.com

Hi,

I have Eclipse 3.0 already installed and working version of the software.
I am trying to install Visual Editor. I have installed the following
1. eclipse-JDT-3.0.zip
2. eclipse-PDE-3.0.zip
3. emf-sdo-runtime-2.0.0.zip
4. GEF-runtime-3.0.zip
5. VE-runtime-1.0.1.1.zip

Inspite of these installations, I am getting an error saying
ClassNotFound. Could anyone please provide me steps to install VE for
3.0.0 version and also please let me know how to uninstall the once that I
have installed. Is it just delete the jar files or should I execute any
program?

Thank you,
VinodRamu

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103557 is a reply to message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 09:31

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: vinod.ramu.wipro.com

Could some body help me please :-((

Thanks,
VinodRamu

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103584 is a reply to message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 11:50

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: myersj.nospam.gmail.com

I believe VE-runtime-1.0.1.1 requires Eclipse 3.0.1 or 3.0.2. There
were some minor fixes in 3.0.1 vs 3.0.0 that were needed to get VE to
run properly. What are the error messages you are receiving?

- Jeff

VinodRamu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have Eclipse 3.0 already installed and working version of the
> software. I am trying to install Visual Editor. I have installed the
> following 1. eclipse-JDT-3.0.zip
> 2. eclipse-PDE-3.0.zip
> 3. emf-sdo-runtime-2.0.0.zip
> 4. GEF-runtime-3.0.zip
> 5. VE-runtime-1.0.1.1.zip
>
> Inspite of these installations, I am getting an error saying
> ClassNotFound. Could anyone please provide me steps to install VE for
> 3.0.0 version and also please let me know how to uninstall the once that
> I have installed. Is it just delete the jar files or should I execute
> any program?
>
> Thank you,
> VinodRamu
>

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103660 is a reply to message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 19:26

Robert Emmons is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 29
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

VinodRamu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have Eclipse 3.0 already installed and working version of the
> software. I am trying to install Visual Editor. I have installed the
> following 1. eclipse-JDT-3.0.zip
> 2. eclipse-PDE-3.0.zip
> 3. emf-sdo-runtime-2.0.0.zip
> 4. GEF-runtime-3.0.zip
> 5. VE-runtime-1.0.1.1.zip
>
> Inspite of these installations, I am getting an error saying
> ClassNotFound. Could anyone please provide me steps to install VE for
> 3.0.0 version and also please let me know how to uninstall the once that
> I have installed. Is it just delete the jar files or should I execute
> any program?

The VE seems to be finicky regarding which versions of supporting
packages you have installed. I have the following installed, and the VE
seems to be running properly, although I am just starting to try it.
You probably don't need to install the WTP (Web Tools Project).

Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip
Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip
Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip
VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip
Launch: eclipse.exe -clean

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103687 is a reply to message #103660]

Thu, 25 August 2005 22:21

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

I don't see how this could work. VE/JEM 1.0.2.2 will not work on Eclipse
3.1 at all. That is a known not working configuration.

> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip
> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip
> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip
> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip
> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103727 is a reply to message #103687]

Fri, 26 August 2005 04:53

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: vinod.ramu.wipro.com

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your reply. Finally, I resolved the problem by installing
Exadel Studio 2.5, which is compatible with Eclipse 3.0.

Now I am able to see the palette with all the components + code
generation. However, in this palette the LayourManager, which is the
basics for swing development is missing.

Does any one of you have any idea how to get the various layout
(specifically GridBagLayout) under the palette?

Thank you,
VinodRamu

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103867 is a reply to message #103727]

Fri, 26 August 2005 10:34

Joe Winchester is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 496
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Hi VinodRamu,

> However, in this palette the LayourManager, which is the
> basics for swing development is missing.
> Does any one of you have any idea how to get the various layout
> (specifically GridBagLayout) under the palette?

The VE doesn't have layouts on the palette. There is a category of
Swing containers from which you can drop things like JPanel, JFrame and
others. These will have the default layout manager that the code
specifies (null for JPanel, Border for JFrame's content pane, etc...)
and to change layout manager use the Proerties viewer, select the layout
property and there is a drop down list of available layout managers to
switch to.

We have toyed with various ideas to make this more intuitive. One would
be to have a pop-up menu option called "Switch Layout" that showed a fly
out menu of available layouts. Another would be to have the layouts in
a list on the Customize Layout dialog. We have also thought about
having a preference so that the default layout manager could be changed
- a lot of Swing people use GridBag and SWT use Grid for example rather
than the null default which almost always gets changed.

Best regards,

Joe Winchester

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103948 is a reply to message #103687]

Fri, 26 August 2005 19:55

Robert Emmons is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 29
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

Rich Kulp wrote:
> I don't see how this could work. VE/JEM 1.0.2.2 will not work on Eclipse
> 3.1 at all. That is a known not working configuration.
>
>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip
>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip
>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip
>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip
>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean
>
>

I don't know what to say. Here list of the requirements for the VE

Eclipse build eclipse-SDK-3.1: (build page) (download win32 zip)
EMF build 2.1.0: (build page) (download zip)
GEF Build 3.1: (build page) (download zip)

Here is a link to the page I got the requirements from:

http://download.eclipse.org/tools/ve/downloads/drops/R-1.1-2 00507221721/index.html

Please note that I used that I used SDKs. I wanted to get both the VE
and the WTP working from the same installation so I tried a couple of
combinations of versions. I hit on the one above and it worked. Next
time I will probably use separate installations for the VE and WTP.

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #103962 is a reply to message #103948]

Fri, 26 August 2005 21:14

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

The list of requirements you wrote is correct, but the list of what you
had installed is not! They didn't match. You said you had
VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip and JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip. Those are not compatible
with Eclipse 3.1.

However, WTP M5 probably conflicted with VE because it was released
before VE had released its final 1.1 driver. VE and WTP both share JEM.
There is no need for you to separately download JEM if you get VE, VE
will include JEM.

Robert J Emmons wrote:
> Rich Kulp wrote:
>
>> I don't see how this could work. VE/JEM 1.0.2.2 will not work on
>> Eclipse 3.1 at all. That is a known not working configuration.
>>
>>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
>>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
>>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip

****** >>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip

>>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip

******** >>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip

>>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean
>>
>>
>>
>
> I don't know what to say. Here list of the requirements for the VE
>
> Eclipse build eclipse-SDK-3.1: (build page) (download win32 zip)
> EMF build 2.1.0: (build page) (download zip)
> GEF Build 3.1: (build page) (download zip)
>
>
> Here is a link to the page I got the requirements from:
>
> http://download.eclipse.org/tools/ve/downloads/drops/R-1.1-2 00507221721/index.html
>
>
>
> Please note that I used that I used SDKs. I wanted to get both the VE
> and the WTP working from the same installation so I tried a couple of
> combinations of versions. I hit on the one above and it worked. Next
> time I will probably use separate installations for the VE and WTP.
>

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #104141 is a reply to message #103962]

Mon, 29 August 2005 15:04

Robert Emmons is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 29
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

Rich Kulp wrote:
> The list of requirements you wrote is correct, but the list of what you
> had installed is not! They didn't match. You said you had
> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip and JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip. Those are not compatible
> with Eclipse 3.1.

> Robert J Emmons wrote:
Prerequisites for VE Release Build 1.1:
>> Eclipse build eclipse-SDK-3.1: (build page) (download win32 zip)
>> EMF build 2.1.0: (build page) (download zip)
>> GEF Build 3.1: (build page) (download zip)
>>

I installed:
>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (same as above)
>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip (same as above)
>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip (same as above)
>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip (additional)
>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip (additional)
>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip (prerequisites same as above)
>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean (launch command)

Where is the difference? I installed the exact specified prerequisites
for VE 1.1, plus JEM, and WTP. The additional items apparently did not
break the VE and prerequisites installation. I am not sure of the order
I installed the items. Perhaps, that matters. I believe I got the WTP
working first, then added the VE. Both are working.

I am definitely running the VE runtime 1.1M2 with Eclipse 3.1. You can
try it on your computer or buy an airline ticket to New Jersey, and I
will give you a demo.

--
Robert Emmons, Aurigen Inc.
remmons@aurigen.com, http://www.aurigen.com
Computer Programming and Consulting

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #104186 is a reply to message #104141]

Mon, 29 August 2005 15:56

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

I'm trying to say VE 1.0.2.2 and JEM 1.0.2.2 ARE NOT VALID WITH ECLIPSE
3.1! THEY WILL NOT WORK WITH ECLIPSE 3.1!!!!

When you installed VE 1.1 you wiped out the 1.0.2.2 versions since those
are downlevel and VE 1.1 would replace them with the 1.1 versions.

>>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (same as above)
>>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip (same as above)
>>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip (same as above)

>>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip (additional)

>>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip (additional)

>>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip (prerequisites same as above)

>>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean (launch command)
>
--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610385 is a reply to message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 09:31

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: vinod.ramu.wipro.com

Could some body help me please :-((

Thanks,
VinodRamu

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610387 is a reply to message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 11:50

Jeff Myers is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 396
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

I believe VE-runtime-1.0.1.1 requires Eclipse 3.0.1 or 3.0.2. There
were some minor fixes in 3.0.1 vs 3.0.0 that were needed to get VE to
run properly. What are the error messages you are receiving?

- Jeff

VinodRamu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have Eclipse 3.0 already installed and working version of the
> software. I am trying to install Visual Editor. I have installed the
> following 1. eclipse-JDT-3.0.zip
> 2. eclipse-PDE-3.0.zip
> 3. emf-sdo-runtime-2.0.0.zip
> 4. GEF-runtime-3.0.zip
> 5. VE-runtime-1.0.1.1.zip
>
> Inspite of these installations, I am getting an error saying
> ClassNotFound. Could anyone please provide me steps to install VE for
> 3.0.0 version and also please let me know how to uninstall the once that
> I have installed. Is it just delete the jar files or should I execute
> any program?
>
> Thank you,
> VinodRamu
>

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610393 is a reply to message #103522]

Thu, 25 August 2005 19:26

Robert Emmons is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 29
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

VinodRamu wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have Eclipse 3.0 already installed and working version of the
> software. I am trying to install Visual Editor. I have installed the
> following 1. eclipse-JDT-3.0.zip
> 2. eclipse-PDE-3.0.zip
> 3. emf-sdo-runtime-2.0.0.zip
> 4. GEF-runtime-3.0.zip
> 5. VE-runtime-1.0.1.1.zip
>
> Inspite of these installations, I am getting an error saying
> ClassNotFound. Could anyone please provide me steps to install VE for
> 3.0.0 version and also please let me know how to uninstall the once that
> I have installed. Is it just delete the jar files or should I execute
> any program?

The VE seems to be finicky regarding which versions of supporting
packages you have installed. I have the following installed, and the VE
seems to be running properly, although I am just starting to try it.
You probably don't need to install the WTP (Web Tools Project).

Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip
Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip
Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip
VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip
Launch: eclipse.exe -clean

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610395 is a reply to message #103660]

Thu, 25 August 2005 22:21

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

I don't see how this could work. VE/JEM 1.0.2.2 will not work on Eclipse
3.1 at all. That is a known not working configuration.

> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip
> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip
> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip
> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip
> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610398 is a reply to message #103687]

Fri, 26 August 2005 04:53

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: vinod.ramu.wipro.com

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your reply. Finally, I resolved the problem by installing
Exadel Studio 2.5, which is compatible with Eclipse 3.0.

Now I am able to see the palette with all the components + code
generation. However, in this palette the LayourManager, which is the
basics for swing development is missing.

Does any one of you have any idea how to get the various layout
(specifically GridBagLayout) under the palette?

Thank you,
VinodRamu

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610408 is a reply to message #103727]

Fri, 26 August 2005 10:34

Joe Winchester is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 496
Registered: July 2009

Senior Member

Hi VinodRamu,

> However, in this palette the LayourManager, which is the
> basics for swing development is missing.
> Does any one of you have any idea how to get the various layout
> (specifically GridBagLayout) under the palette?

The VE doesn't have layouts on the palette. There is a category of
Swing containers from which you can drop things like JPanel, JFrame and
others. These will have the default layout manager that the code
specifies (null for JPanel, Border for JFrame's content pane, etc...)
and to change layout manager use the Proerties viewer, select the layout
property and there is a drop down list of available layout managers to
switch to.

We have toyed with various ideas to make this more intuitive. One would
be to have a pop-up menu option called "Switch Layout" that showed a fly
out menu of available layouts. Another would be to have the layouts in
a list on the Customize Layout dialog. We have also thought about
having a preference so that the default layout manager could be changed
- a lot of Swing people use GridBag and SWT use Grid for example rather
than the null default which almost always gets changed.

Best regards,

Joe Winchester

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610414 is a reply to message #103687]

Fri, 26 August 2005 19:55

Robert Emmons is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 29
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

Rich Kulp wrote:
> I don't see how this could work. VE/JEM 1.0.2.2 will not work on Eclipse
> 3.1 at all. That is a known not working configuration.
>
>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip
>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip
>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip
>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip
>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean
>
>

I don't know what to say. Here list of the requirements for the VE

Eclipse build eclipse-SDK-3.1: (build page) (download win32 zip)
EMF build 2.1.0: (build page) (download zip)
GEF Build 3.1: (build page) (download zip)

Here is a link to the page I got the requirements from:

http://download.eclipse.org/tools/ve/downloads/drops/R-1.1-2 00507221721/index.html

Please note that I used that I used SDKs. I wanted to get both the VE
and the WTP working from the same installation so I tried a couple of
combinations of versions. I hit on the one above and it worked. Next
time I will probably use separate installations for the VE and WTP.

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610415 is a reply to message #103948]

Fri, 26 August 2005 21:14

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

The list of requirements you wrote is correct, but the list of what you
had installed is not! They didn't match. You said you had
VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip and JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip. Those are not compatible
with Eclipse 3.1.

However, WTP M5 probably conflicted with VE because it was released
before VE had released its final 1.1 driver. VE and WTP both share JEM.
There is no need for you to separately download JEM if you get VE, VE
will include JEM.

Robert J Emmons wrote:
> Rich Kulp wrote:
>
>> I don't see how this could work. VE/JEM 1.0.2.2 will not work on
>> Eclipse 3.1 at all. That is a known not working configuration.
>>
>>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip)
>>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip
>>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip

****** >>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip

>>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip

******** >>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip

>>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean
>>
>>
>>
>
> I don't know what to say. Here list of the requirements for the VE
>
> Eclipse build eclipse-SDK-3.1: (build page) (download win32 zip)
> EMF build 2.1.0: (build page) (download zip)
> GEF Build 3.1: (build page) (download zip)
>
>
> Here is a link to the page I got the requirements from:
>
> http://download.eclipse.org/tools/ve/downloads/drops/R-1.1-2 00507221721/index.html
>
>
>
> Please note that I used that I used SDKs. I wanted to get both the VE
> and the WTP working from the same installation so I tried a couple of
> combinations of versions. I hit on the one above and it worked. Next
> time I will probably use separate installations for the VE and WTP.
>

--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610428 is a reply to message #103962]

Mon, 29 August 2005 15:04

Robert Emmons is currently offline

Friend

Messages: 29
Registered: July 2009

Junior Member

Rich Kulp wrote:
> The list of requirements you wrote is correct, but the list of what you
> had installed is not! They didn't match. You said you had
> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip and JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip. Those are not compatible
> with Eclipse 3.1.

> Robert J Emmons wrote:
Prerequisites for VE Release Build 1.1:
>> Eclipse build eclipse-SDK-3.1: (build page) (download win32 zip)
>> EMF build 2.1.0: (build page) (download zip)
>> GEF Build 3.1: (build page) (download zip)
>>

I installed:
>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (same as above)
>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip (same as above)
>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip (same as above)
>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip (additional)
>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip (additional)
>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip (prerequisites same as above)
>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean (launch command)

Where is the difference? I installed the exact specified prerequisites
for VE 1.1, plus JEM, and WTP. The additional items apparently did not
break the VE and prerequisites installation. I am not sure of the order
I installed the items. Perhaps, that matters. I believe I got the WTP
working first, then added the VE. Both are working.

I am definitely running the VE runtime 1.1M2 with Eclipse 3.1. You can
try it on your computer or buy an airline ticket to New Jersey, and I
will give you a demo.

--
Robert Emmons, Aurigen Inc.
remmons@aurigen.com, http://www.aurigen.com
Computer Programming and Consulting

Report message to a moderator

Re: How to VE with Eclipse 3.0.0 [message #610431 is a reply to message #104141]

Mon, 29 August 2005 15:56

Eclipse User

Friend

Originally posted by: richkulp.us.NO_SPAM.ibm.com

I'm trying to say VE 1.0.2.2 and JEM 1.0.2.2 ARE NOT VALID WITH ECLIPSE
3.1! THEY WILL NOT WORK WITH ECLIPSE 3.1!!!!

When you installed VE 1.1 you wiped out the 1.0.2.2 versions since those
are downlevel and VE 1.1 would replace them with the 1.1 versions.

>>> Install Eclipse SDK 3.1.0 (same as above)
>>> Install EMF: emf-sdo-xsd-SDK-2.1.0.zip (same as above)
>>> Install GEF: GEF-SDK-3.1.zip (same as above)

>>> Install JEM: JEM-SDK-1.0.2.2.zip (additional)

>>> Install WTP: wtp-1.0M5.zip (additional)

>>> VE-runtime-1.0.2.2.zip (prerequisites same as above)

>>> Launch: eclipse.exe -clean (launch command)
>
--
Thanks,
Rich Kulp

Report message to a moderator

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