Home » Language IDEs » ServerTools (WTP) » WTP M3: what is the deal with the install process? (long)
| WTP M3: what is the deal with the install process? (long) [message #79613] |
Thu, 03 March 2005 02:03  |
Eclipse User |
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Warning: long rant follows on my experience getting Eclipse + WTP M3
setup...
Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair yet? The
final release is planned for July, and yet I still had to spend an
entire evening just to get web tools setup and running optimally (and
its still not quite right). My goal was to get Eclipse ready for
servlet/jsp development, with all web plugins linked in a separate
folder so I could upgrade the core of Eclipse with new builds if I liked.
I followed the instructions to the letter at:
http://download.eclipse.org/webtools/downloads/drops/S-1.0M3 -200502260707/index.html
http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/wst/components/ws/download_i nstructions_for_jars.html
- What is the difference between the SDK and runtime files? will both
work the same?
- Why do we need to install three separate zips for GEF/EMF/EMF Runtime?
Can't at least these three prereq's be packaged together in one zip -
they are all from w/i the Eclipse foundation, so I can't imagine there
would be licensing issues.
- Why are there not clear cut instructions linked right easily found on
Eclipse.org on how to optimally setup your environment with all add-ons
in a separate directory, so you can easily upgrade/move your
environment/share with team members? What about setting up multiple
machines automagically for teams? I had to goggle around to piece
together the right way to do it:
http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?anchor=eclipse_tip_o_the_da y
-- quick and dirty with the links dir
http://eclipsewiki.editme.com/InstallUpdateFaq
-- some limited instructions near the bottom
http://www.eaves.org/blog-archive/000058.html
-- in depth, seems outdated
- Why are the additional web services features listed as "optional" when
in reality they are required to get WTP working normally. When I read
"optional", I figured I would skip the web services piece and just not
see an option for it. Yet when I got everything running, I was not able
to create a dynamic web project (tomcat 5.0.x, a plain servlet, etc)
without getting error popups after just about every click. When I
checked the logs I saw that Eclipse was having problems with
"org.eclipse.wst.wsdl". Not to mention the nasty error message that
comes up with every startup. So I really would need to get the web
services pieces installed, also, which leads me too...
- The web services piece. The ant script would not run at all for me.
First I had to install Ant, since I didn't want to try using Eclipse's
version with errors popping up everywhere. Installed ant, set ant_home,
etc...tried to run the script. Got errors about not finding build.xml -
renamed the xml file to build.xml. Got errors about not finding the
paths I'm specifying - moved files to a simple root folder, tried
extracting into that same folder. More errors about the path...do I
need forward slashes for ant, back slashes? Do I need to use 8.3 folder
names or is long names in quotes okay? Apache's docs weren't much help
with that...
By that point is was 1 am and I just wanted to get it working, so I
manually extracted all the pieces to the proper directories. This was a
pain also, of course, as every jar/zip had a different structure. But
finally, I got Eclipse running w/o errors, was able to create a servlet,
and called it a night at about 2:30 am.
So now I see that the Servlet works fine, but I still don't see options
for creating new JSPs in the New menu. Something must still not be
right, there...
It may not seem like it, but I really love Eclipse - I wouldn't use
anything else, and it pains me to use WSAD at work when I could be using
the latest and greatest with whatever plugins I wanted.
Yet there are still some big problems with usability and documentation
that really need to be ironed, at least for Web Tools to really become
the web dev platform of choice.
Rob Sanheim
http://www.robsanheim.com
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| Re: WTP M3: what is the deal with the install process? (long) [message #80210 is a reply to message #79613] |
Fri, 04 March 2005 10:53  |
| Eclipse User |
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|
Hi Rob,
Re: Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair? I agreed,
we need to improve the user install experience. We're looking into using the
update manager to ease the install process. The idea is that, you launch the
update manager, enter a couple URLs, click install, restart the workbench
and everything will be there.
Jeff
"Rob Sanheim" <rsanheim@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d06cs9$ves$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Warning: long rant follows on my experience getting Eclipse + WTP M3
> setup...
>
> Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair yet? The
> final release is planned for July, and yet I still had to spend an
> entire evening just to get web tools setup and running optimally (and
> its still not quite right). My goal was to get Eclipse ready for
> servlet/jsp development, with all web plugins linked in a separate
> folder so I could upgrade the core of Eclipse with new builds if I liked.
>
> I followed the instructions to the letter at:
>
http://download.eclipse.org/webtools/downloads/drops/S-1.0M3 -200502260707/index.html
>
http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/wst/components/ws/download_i nstructions_for_jars.html
> - What is the difference between the SDK and runtime files? will both
> work the same?
>
> - Why do we need to install three separate zips for GEF/EMF/EMF Runtime?
> Can't at least these three prereq's be packaged together in one zip -
> they are all from w/i the Eclipse foundation, so I can't imagine there
> would be licensing issues.
>
> - Why are there not clear cut instructions linked right easily found on
> Eclipse.org on how to optimally setup your environment with all add-ons
> in a separate directory, so you can easily upgrade/move your
> environment/share with team members? What about setting up multiple
> machines automagically for teams? I had to goggle around to piece
> together the right way to do it:
> http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?anchor=eclipse_tip_o_the_da y
> -- quick and dirty with the links dir
> http://eclipsewiki.editme.com/InstallUpdateFaq
> -- some limited instructions near the bottom
> http://www.eaves.org/blog-archive/000058.html
> -- in depth, seems outdated
>
> - Why are the additional web services features listed as "optional" when
> in reality they are required to get WTP working normally. When I read
> "optional", I figured I would skip the web services piece and just not
> see an option for it. Yet when I got everything running, I was not able
> to create a dynamic web project (tomcat 5.0.x, a plain servlet, etc)
> without getting error popups after just about every click. When I
> checked the logs I saw that Eclipse was having problems with
> "org.eclipse.wst.wsdl". Not to mention the nasty error message that
> comes up with every startup. So I really would need to get the web
> services pieces installed, also, which leads me too...
>
> - The web services piece. The ant script would not run at all for me.
> First I had to install Ant, since I didn't want to try using Eclipse's
> version with errors popping up everywhere. Installed ant, set ant_home,
> etc...tried to run the script. Got errors about not finding build.xml -
> renamed the xml file to build.xml. Got errors about not finding the
> paths I'm specifying - moved files to a simple root folder, tried
> extracting into that same folder. More errors about the path...do I
> need forward slashes for ant, back slashes? Do I need to use 8.3 folder
> names or is long names in quotes okay? Apache's docs weren't much help
> with that...
>
> By that point is was 1 am and I just wanted to get it working, so I
> manually extracted all the pieces to the proper directories. This was a
> pain also, of course, as every jar/zip had a different structure. But
> finally, I got Eclipse running w/o errors, was able to create a servlet,
> and called it a night at about 2:30 am.
>
> So now I see that the Servlet works fine, but I still don't see options
> for creating new JSPs in the New menu. Something must still not be
> right, there...
>
> It may not seem like it, but I really love Eclipse - I wouldn't use
> anything else, and it pains me to use WSAD at work when I could be using
> the latest and greatest with whatever plugins I wanted.
>
> Yet there are still some big problems with usability and documentation
> that really need to be ironed, at least for Web Tools to really become
> the web dev platform of choice.
>
> Rob Sanheim
> http://www.robsanheim.com
>
|
|
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| Re: WTP M3: what is the deal with the install process? (long) [message #80380 is a reply to message #80210] |
Fri, 04 March 2005 15:18 |
| Eclipse User |
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|
Originally posted by: robwms63.yahoo.com
That *idea* is a good one!
Jeff Liu wrote:
> Hi Rob,
>
> Re: Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair? I agreed,
> we need to improve the user install experience. We're looking into using the
> update manager to ease the install process. The idea is that, you launch the
> update manager, enter a couple URLs, click install, restart the workbench
> and everything will be there.
>
> Jeff
>
> "Rob Sanheim" <rsanheim@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d06cs9$ves$1@www.eclipse.org...
>
>>Warning: long rant follows on my experience getting Eclipse + WTP M3
>>setup...
>>
>>Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair yet? The
>>final release is planned for July, and yet I still had to spend an
>>entire evening just to get web tools setup and running optimally (and
>>its still not quite right). My goal was to get Eclipse ready for
>>servlet/jsp development, with all web plugins linked in a separate
>>folder so I could upgrade the core of Eclipse with new builds if I liked.
>>
>>I followed the instructions to the letter at:
>>
>
> http://download.eclipse.org/webtools/downloads/drops/S-1.0M3 -200502260707/index.html
>
> http://www.eclipse.org/webtools/wst/components/ws/download_i nstructions_for_jars.html
>
>>- What is the difference between the SDK and runtime files? will both
>>work the same?
>>
>>- Why do we need to install three separate zips for GEF/EMF/EMF Runtime?
>> Can't at least these three prereq's be packaged together in one zip -
>>they are all from w/i the Eclipse foundation, so I can't imagine there
>>would be licensing issues.
>>
>>- Why are there not clear cut instructions linked right easily found on
>>Eclipse.org on how to optimally setup your environment with all add-ons
>>in a separate directory, so you can easily upgrade/move your
>>environment/share with team members? What about setting up multiple
>>machines automagically for teams? I had to goggle around to piece
>>together the right way to do it:
>> http://raibledesigns.com/page/rd?anchor=eclipse_tip_o_the_da y
>>-- quick and dirty with the links dir
>>http://eclipsewiki.editme.com/InstallUpdateFaq
>>-- some limited instructions near the bottom
>>http://www.eaves.org/blog-archive/000058.html
>>-- in depth, seems outdated
>>
>>- Why are the additional web services features listed as "optional" when
>>in reality they are required to get WTP working normally. When I read
>>"optional", I figured I would skip the web services piece and just not
>>see an option for it. Yet when I got everything running, I was not able
>>to create a dynamic web project (tomcat 5.0.x, a plain servlet, etc)
>>without getting error popups after just about every click. When I
>>checked the logs I saw that Eclipse was having problems with
>>"org.eclipse.wst.wsdl". Not to mention the nasty error message that
>>comes up with every startup. So I really would need to get the web
>>services pieces installed, also, which leads me too...
>>
>>- The web services piece. The ant script would not run at all for me.
>>First I had to install Ant, since I didn't want to try using Eclipse's
>>version with errors popping up everywhere. Installed ant, set ant_home,
>>etc...tried to run the script. Got errors about not finding build.xml -
>>renamed the xml file to build.xml. Got errors about not finding the
>>paths I'm specifying - moved files to a simple root folder, tried
>>extracting into that same folder. More errors about the path...do I
>>need forward slashes for ant, back slashes? Do I need to use 8.3 folder
>>names or is long names in quotes okay? Apache's docs weren't much help
>>with that...
>>
>>By that point is was 1 am and I just wanted to get it working, so I
>>manually extracted all the pieces to the proper directories. This was a
>>pain also, of course, as every jar/zip had a different structure. But
>>finally, I got Eclipse running w/o errors, was able to create a servlet,
>>and called it a night at about 2:30 am.
>>
>>So now I see that the Servlet works fine, but I still don't see options
>>for creating new JSPs in the New menu. Something must still not be
>>right, there...
>>
>>It may not seem like it, but I really love Eclipse - I wouldn't use
>>anything else, and it pains me to use WSAD at work when I could be using
>>the latest and greatest with whatever plugins I wanted.
>>
>>Yet there are still some big problems with usability and documentation
>>that really need to be ironed, at least for Web Tools to really become
>>the web dev platform of choice.
>>
>>Rob Sanheim
>>http://www.robsanheim.com
>>
>
>
>
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| Re: WTP M3: what is the deal with the install process? (long) [message #80889 is a reply to message #80714] |
Mon, 07 March 2005 10:15 |
| Eclipse User |
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Hi Rob,
Bugzilla 87270: https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=87270
I'm also looking into making the three dependencies available from the
update site. I'm not exactly sure why the Web services piece is not tagged
as optional. Last I heard, there was a dependency from the J2EE component. I
believe they are looking into removing that dependency. I could be wrong
here... please charm in if anyone knows the answer/progress.
Thanks,
Jeff
"Rob Sanheim" <rsanheim@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:422BB9B0.5070106@gmail.com...
> Jeff Liu wrote:
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Re: Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair? I
agreed,
> > we need to improve the user install experience. We're looking into using
the
> > update manager to ease the install process. The idea is that, you launch
the
> > update manager, enter a couple URLs, click install, restart the
workbench
> > and everything will be there.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Jeff:
>
> Thanks for the response. Is there an entry in Bugzilla where I can
> track this or vote for it? Why can't the three dependancies be packaged
> together now, and why hasn't the milestone page been changed to not
> display the web services pieces (at least the WSDL) as optional?
>
> Rob Sanheim
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| Re: WTP M3: what is the deal with the install process? (long) [message #80897 is a reply to message #80851] |
Mon, 07 March 2005 10:19 |
| Eclipse User |
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|
|
Hi Raphael,
I'm trying to rip out Web service's dependency on Apache SOAP. If that
works, then we no longer need mail.jar and activation.jar.
Thanks,
Jeff
"Raphael A. Bauer" <raphael.bauer@temis-group.com> wrote in message
news:d0h82e$h6u$1@www.eclipse.org...
> Jeff Liu wrote:
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Re: Why is the Web Tools install process not a one click affair? I
agreed,
> > we need to improve the user install experience. We're looking into using
the
> > update manager to ease the install process. The idea is that, you launch
the
> > update manager, enter a couple URLs, click install, restart the
workbench
> > and everything will be there.
> .... there is perhps one small problem with that. Sun has very
> restrictive download access for eg JavaMail API. Only webiterface via
> clicking on "Accept License" and then a temorary link to the download
> site...
>
> Are there any good ideas how to deal with that?
>
> Raphael
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