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OSGi container on an application server [message #51253]

Fri, 21 October 2005 03:23

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: eishays.us.ibm.com

I'm part of the Eclipse Open Healthcare Project (EOHF), a first Eclipse
project that targets an industry specific client framework over RCP. One
of the problems we face in our architecture is the need to run OSGi
bundles on the server side.

The outcome is an idea to have an OSGi container inside an application
server (first candidate is Geronimo). Such a container should act like
any other container in an application server, such as EJB, Web and
Spring containers.

The container design should strive to have OSGi bundles be unaware
whether they run in a client or server side. As Jeff suggested, at first
there will be some restrictions on the bundles, and wile the container
will mature and OSGi will supply relevant features, those restrictions
will shrink.

Comments and ideas are welcome.

Thanks,
Eishay

Re: OSGi container on an application server [message #51448 is a reply to message #51253]

Sat, 22 October 2005 05:05

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: amottadelli_toberemoved.tele2.it

Great idea, OSGi component model is far superior to the J2EE one.

I believe that a lot of people got the same idea, for example cocoon
developers ( http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@cocoon.apache.org/msg30970.h tml)

To run eclipse osgi runtime in a servlet container you will need at
least the patches provided in the eclipse bug #107909.
By the way, you will run in the limitations of the URL handlers service
described in the bug.

My feeling is that a true "OSGi on app server" solution will be
available when OSGi will be merged in the app server kernel.

Regards,
Sandro

Re: OSGi container on an application server [message #51476 is a reply to message #51448]

Sat, 22 October 2005 20:35

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: chaves.inf.no.spam.ufsc.br

Alessandro Mottadelli wrote:
> Great idea, OSGi component model is far superior to the J2EE one.

Hmm... what J2EE component model are you talking about? EJB? Or servlets?

OSGi is great from the point of view of deployment. But its lifecycle
model has no specific support for server-side, transactional, scalable
applications as EJB does. And that should not be surprising, given its
original target was embedded aplications
(http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=8#2). Eclipse proved it was good
enough for desktop applications as well. But from this to being able to
replace EJB, there is *really* long way.

Cheers,

Rafael

Re: OSGi container on an application server [message #51503 is a reply to message #51448]

Sun, 23 October 2005 02:19

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: eishays.us.ibm.com

We don't looks to replace EJBs, but to interact with it and other server
side models. Each model has its respectful destination with weakness and
strengths, with growing weaknesses once trying to use it out of its
target play field.

There are several patterns I'm thinking about and I do need Equinox
experts in order to check them out and articulate them.

>To run eclipse osgi runtime in a servlet container you will need at
least the patches provided in the eclipse bug >#107909.
>By the way, you will run in the limitations of the URL handlers
service described in the bug.

I do not know bug #107909, and do not wish to have an OSGi container
embedded inside a servlet container. I rather have it as a stand alone
container in an application server, a first class citizen, just like
EJBs, Servlets and Spring containers. Having them accessible from either
container, similarly as EJBs and Data Source resources are accessible
from the Servlet container.

> My feeling is that a true "OSGi on app server" solution will be
> available when OSGi will be merged in the app server kernel.

Great minds thinks alike :-)
I changes some ideas with the Geronimo community. It looks like Dain
Sundstrom had thought about a similar idea. Here is one of my questions
and an answer:

>> I've talked with Jeff McAffer about it last week and I understood that
>> there where some talks about using the Equinox OSGi somewhere in the
>> infrastructure and not as a container.
>
>It will be a bi-directional integration, so OGIi bundles will be able
>to see geronimo services and geronimo services will be able to see
>bundles (and services in bundles). Using your terminology it will be
>a container.

You are welcome to view the full thread at the Geronimo and Eclipse OHF
mailing list.

Regards,
Eishay

Re: OSGi container on an application server [message #51529 is a reply to message #51503]

Sun, 23 October 2005 15:44

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: skaegi.sympatico.ca

> have an OSGi container inside an application server
I think it sounds like a great idea ;)

> We don't looks to replace EJBs, but to interact with it and other server
> side models. Each model has its respectful destination with weakness and
> strengths, with growing weaknesses once trying to use it out of its
> target play field.
I couldn't agree more -- well put.

> I do not know bug #107909, and do not wish to have an OSGi container
> embedded inside a servlet container. I rather have it as a stand alone
> container in an application server, a first class citizen, just like
> EJBs, Servlets and Spring containers.
The servlet container is one example of many for server-side OSGi
environments.
You've hit on another that will share many of the same problems.

The above bug/enhancement is not specific to just servlet containers, it
will affects app servers too.
Depending on how far down the integration road he is I suspect Dain's
familiar with it (or will be shortly).
There are other issues when integrating Eclipse server-side and Equinox is
definitely the right place to talk about them.

> >It will be a bi-directional integration, so OSGi bundles will be able
> >to see geronimo services and geronimo services will be able to see
> >bundles (and services in bundles).
....
> You are welcome to view the full thread at the Geronimo and Eclipse OHF
> mailing list.
Thanks Eishay. This looks like very interesting stuff.

Re: OSGi container on an application server [message #51863 is a reply to message #51476]

Thu, 27 October 2005 01:32

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: amottadelli.it.ibm.comnospam

Rafael Chaves wrote:
>
> Hmm... what J2EE component model are you talking about? EJB? Or servlets?
>
Obviously neither servlets nor EJB provide generally useful
modularization mechanisms. In fact, app server vendors have developed
their own proprietary module systems. Proprietary and as such
unavailable to the "application" programmer.

> OSGi is great from the point of view of deployment. But its lifecycle
> model has no specific support for server-side, transactional, scalable
> applications as EJB does. And that should not be surprising, given its
> original target was embedded aplications
> (http://www.jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=8#2). Eclipse proved it was good
> enough for desktop applications as well. But from this to being able to
> replace EJB, there is *really* long way.
>
Yes, EJB were designed to provide declarative distributed transaction
management. Transaction management is out of the scope of OSGi.

Cheers,
Sandro

Re: OSGi container on an application server [message #51887 is a reply to message #51863]

Thu, 27 October 2005 08:34

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: chaves.inf.no.spam.ufsc.br

Alessandro Mottadelli wrote:
> Yes, EJB were designed to provide declarative distributed transaction
> management. Transaction management is out of the scope of OSGi.

That is one example, another is resource pooling.

Rafael

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