Home » Archived » B3 » Build Death Match @ EclipseCon?
| Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #502348] |
Mon, 07 December 2009 19:13  |
 Nick Boldt
Messages: 481
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
Would you guys like to participate in a showcase of the pros/cons of the
three main technologies for building @ Eclipse: Athena/PDE,
b3/Buckminster, Tycho/Maven?
Until all three converge, there will be benefits to each approach, and I
think it might be useful to show people how they differ, what their
histories are (PDE wrapper for on-server headless builds, workspace &
target provisioning + headless building, using Maven/p2 repos for OSGi
builds), and where they're headed.
I'm not sure the best format for such a discussion, but I think we would
certainly want to present three technologies for producing the same
build, and what each one nets you out of the box. We could look at
something fairly simple, like GEF, then something fairly complex, like
VE or ATF, or even one of the deep-chain Modeling builds with their long
stacks of dependencies.
--
Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com
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| Re: [dash-dev] Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #502365 is a reply to message #502348] |
Mon, 07 December 2009 20:43  |
Nick Boldt
Messages: 481
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
You'd be surprised how many people at EclipseCon *do* attend talks about
build tech. The one that Andrew O, Andrew N, and I did last year was
packed.
As a starting point I've put together a Google Spreadsheet to tabulate
the differences / overlaps.
http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t5wyKBLC4MNTjEElP2YH rfw
If you've been copied in this thread, I've invited you to edit the doc.
If you don't have edit permission and would like it, give me your Google
apps address (normally @gmail.com) and I'll add you.
N
Jason van Zyl wrote:
> I was going to submit one on end-to-end development but I can submit one on Tycho specifically.
>
> I don't know exactly the format of the room Sonatype gets so we can take it out of the normal program if you like.
>
> I only say this because this will probably be a rather focused group and I'm not sure if 4 build talks are going to be overly popular with the general audience. If you want to make way for other technologies which might draw more people that would be cool with me and we can pick a day in the Sonatype room. The general ratio between developers and build & release folks is typically 50-100:1 in most organizations so you might not want to take up a disproportionate number of talks with build & release. We all know it's important but most people are not all that thrilled. For most build & release = snore.
>
> On 2009-12-07, at 11:19 AM, Oisin Hurley wrote:
>
>> What are you thinking of for format? Panel discussion? BoF++?
>> Many-headed hydra-style tutorial?
>>
>> If each approach was to submit a standard talk, it might be possible,
>> scheduling algorithm permitting, to schedule them in order, followed
>> up by a panel discussion at the end of the day, then a BoF-like
>> organism during the unconference evening?
>>
>> --oh
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> dash-dev mailing list
> dash-dev@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
--
Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com
|
|
|
| Re: [dash-dev] Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #502367 is a reply to message #502365] |
Mon, 07 December 2009 20:53 |
|
If we could get it in as the last session and muster up some free beer...
- thomas
On 2009-12-07 21:43, Nick Boldt wrote:
> You'd be surprised how many people at EclipseCon *do* attend talks about
> build tech. The one that Andrew O, Andrew N, and I did last year was
> packed.
>
> As a starting point I've put together a Google Spreadsheet to tabulate
> the differences / overlaps.
>
> http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t5wyKBLC4MNTjEElP2YH rfw
>
> If you've been copied in this thread, I've invited you to edit the doc.
> If you don't have edit permission and would like it, give me your Google
> apps address (normally @gmail.com) and I'll add you.
>
> N
>
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> I was going to submit one on end-to-end development but I can submit
>> one on Tycho specifically.
>>
>> I don't know exactly the format of the room Sonatype gets so we can
>> take it out of the normal program if you like.
>>
>> I only say this because this will probably be a rather focused group
>> and I'm not sure if 4 build talks are going to be overly popular with
>> the general audience. If you want to make way for other technologies
>> which might draw more people that would be cool with me and we can
>> pick a day in the Sonatype room. The general ratio between developers
>> and build & release folks is typically 50-100:1 in most organizations
>> so you might not want to take up a disproportionate number of talks
>> with build & release. We all know it's important but most people are
>> not all that thrilled. For most build & release = snore.
>>
>> On 2009-12-07, at 11:19 AM, Oisin Hurley wrote:
>>
>>> What are you thinking of for format? Panel discussion? BoF++?
>>> Many-headed hydra-style tutorial?
>>>
>>> If each approach was to submit a standard talk, it might be possible,
>>> scheduling algorithm permitting, to schedule them in order, followed
>>> up by a panel discussion at the end of the day, then a BoF-like
>>> organism during the unconference evening?
>>>
>>> --oh
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder, Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dash-dev mailing list
>> dash-dev@eclipse.org
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
>
|
|
|
| Re: [dash-dev] Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #502586 is a reply to message #502365] |
Tue, 08 December 2009 22:38 |
Werner Keil
Messages: 1087
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
We got a rather fancy build requirement, too where a small RCP launcher acts
similar to what e.g. WebStart/JNLP would do in other scenarios.
So the build system is a modification or PDE/Ant, but we also got elements
ot Athena like Hudson.
I have already submitted the project as such, but I plan a second track on
the various Open Source technologies we not only used but also contribute
back to in the course of this project.
Werner
"Nick Boldt" <nickboldt@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4B1D68D6.7090407@gmail.com...
> You'd be surprised how many people at EclipseCon *do* attend talks about
> build tech. The one that Andrew O, Andrew N, and I did last year was
> packed.
>
> As a starting point I've put together a Google Spreadsheet to tabulate the
> differences / overlaps.
>
> http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t5wyKBLC4MNTjEElP2YH rfw
>
> If you've been copied in this thread, I've invited you to edit the doc. If
> you don't have edit permission and would like it, give me your Google apps
> address (normally @gmail.com) and I'll add you.
>
> N
>
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> I was going to submit one on end-to-end development but I can submit one
>> on Tycho specifically.
>>
>> I don't know exactly the format of the room Sonatype gets so we can take
>> it out of the normal program if you like.
>>
>> I only say this because this will probably be a rather focused group and
>> I'm not sure if 4 build talks are going to be overly popular with the
>> general audience. If you want to make way for other technologies which
>> might draw more people that would be cool with me and we can pick a day
>> in the Sonatype room. The general ratio between developers and build &
>> release folks is typically 50-100:1 in most organizations so you might
>> not want to take up a disproportionate number of talks with build &
>> release. We all know it's important but most people are not all that
>> thrilled. For most build & release = snore.
>>
>> On 2009-12-07, at 11:19 AM, Oisin Hurley wrote:
>>
>>> What are you thinking of for format? Panel discussion? BoF++?
>>> Many-headed hydra-style tutorial?
>>>
>>> If each approach was to submit a standard talk, it might be possible,
>>> scheduling algorithm permitting, to schedule them in order, followed
>>> up by a panel discussion at the end of the day, then a BoF-like
>>> organism during the unconference evening?
>>>
>>> --oh
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder, Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dash-dev mailing list
>> dash-dev@eclipse.org
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
>
> --
> Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com
|
|
|
| Re: [dash-dev] Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #593357 is a reply to message #502348] |
Mon, 07 December 2009 20:43 |
Nick Boldt
Messages: 481
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
You'd be surprised how many people at EclipseCon *do* attend talks about
build tech. The one that Andrew O, Andrew N, and I did last year was
packed.
As a starting point I've put together a Google Spreadsheet to tabulate
the differences / overlaps.
http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t5wyKBLC4MNTjEElP2YH rfw
If you've been copied in this thread, I've invited you to edit the doc.
If you don't have edit permission and would like it, give me your Google
apps address (normally @gmail.com) and I'll add you.
N
Jason van Zyl wrote:
> I was going to submit one on end-to-end development but I can submit one on Tycho specifically.
>
> I don't know exactly the format of the room Sonatype gets so we can take it out of the normal program if you like.
>
> I only say this because this will probably be a rather focused group and I'm not sure if 4 build talks are going to be overly popular with the general audience. If you want to make way for other technologies which might draw more people that would be cool with me and we can pick a day in the Sonatype room. The general ratio between developers and build & release folks is typically 50-100:1 in most organizations so you might not want to take up a disproportionate number of talks with build & release. We all know it's important but most people are not all that thrilled. For most build & release = snore.
>
> On 2009-12-07, at 11:19 AM, Oisin Hurley wrote:
>
>> What are you thinking of for format? Panel discussion? BoF++?
>> Many-headed hydra-style tutorial?
>>
>> If each approach was to submit a standard talk, it might be possible,
>> scheduling algorithm permitting, to schedule them in order, followed
>> up by a panel discussion at the end of the day, then a BoF-like
>> organism during the unconference evening?
>>
>> --oh
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> dash-dev mailing list
> dash-dev@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
--
Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com
|
|
|
| Re: [dash-dev] Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #593358 is a reply to message #502365] |
Mon, 07 December 2009 20:53 |
|
If we could get it in as the last session and muster up some free beer...
- thomas
On 2009-12-07 21:43, Nick Boldt wrote:
> You'd be surprised how many people at EclipseCon *do* attend talks about
> build tech. The one that Andrew O, Andrew N, and I did last year was
> packed.
>
> As a starting point I've put together a Google Spreadsheet to tabulate
> the differences / overlaps.
>
> http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t5wyKBLC4MNTjEElP2YH rfw
>
> If you've been copied in this thread, I've invited you to edit the doc.
> If you don't have edit permission and would like it, give me your Google
> apps address (normally @gmail.com) and I'll add you.
>
> N
>
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> I was going to submit one on end-to-end development but I can submit
>> one on Tycho specifically.
>>
>> I don't know exactly the format of the room Sonatype gets so we can
>> take it out of the normal program if you like.
>>
>> I only say this because this will probably be a rather focused group
>> and I'm not sure if 4 build talks are going to be overly popular with
>> the general audience. If you want to make way for other technologies
>> which might draw more people that would be cool with me and we can
>> pick a day in the Sonatype room. The general ratio between developers
>> and build & release folks is typically 50-100:1 in most organizations
>> so you might not want to take up a disproportionate number of talks
>> with build & release. We all know it's important but most people are
>> not all that thrilled. For most build & release = snore.
>>
>> On 2009-12-07, at 11:19 AM, Oisin Hurley wrote:
>>
>>> What are you thinking of for format? Panel discussion? BoF++?
>>> Many-headed hydra-style tutorial?
>>>
>>> If each approach was to submit a standard talk, it might be possible,
>>> scheduling algorithm permitting, to schedule them in order, followed
>>> up by a panel discussion at the end of the day, then a BoF-like
>>> organism during the unconference evening?
>>>
>>> --oh
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder, Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dash-dev mailing list
>> dash-dev@eclipse.org
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
>
|
|
|
| Re: [dash-dev] Build Death Match @ EclipseCon? [message #593371 is a reply to message #502365] |
Tue, 08 December 2009 22:38 |
Werner Keil
Messages: 1087
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
We got a rather fancy build requirement, too where a small RCP launcher acts
similar to what e.g. WebStart/JNLP would do in other scenarios.
So the build system is a modification or PDE/Ant, but we also got elements
ot Athena like Hudson.
I have already submitted the project as such, but I plan a second track on
the various Open Source technologies we not only used but also contribute
back to in the course of this project.
Werner
"Nick Boldt" <nickboldt@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4B1D68D6.7090407@gmail.com...
> You'd be surprised how many people at EclipseCon *do* attend talks about
> build tech. The one that Andrew O, Andrew N, and I did last year was
> packed.
>
> As a starting point I've put together a Google Spreadsheet to tabulate the
> differences / overlaps.
>
> http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=t5wyKBLC4MNTjEElP2YH rfw
>
> If you've been copied in this thread, I've invited you to edit the doc. If
> you don't have edit permission and would like it, give me your Google apps
> address (normally @gmail.com) and I'll add you.
>
> N
>
> Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> I was going to submit one on end-to-end development but I can submit one
>> on Tycho specifically.
>>
>> I don't know exactly the format of the room Sonatype gets so we can take
>> it out of the normal program if you like.
>>
>> I only say this because this will probably be a rather focused group and
>> I'm not sure if 4 build talks are going to be overly popular with the
>> general audience. If you want to make way for other technologies which
>> might draw more people that would be cool with me and we can pick a day
>> in the Sonatype room. The general ratio between developers and build &
>> release folks is typically 50-100:1 in most organizations so you might
>> not want to take up a disproportionate number of talks with build &
>> release. We all know it's important but most people are not all that
>> thrilled. For most build & release = snore.
>>
>> On 2009-12-07, at 11:19 AM, Oisin Hurley wrote:
>>
>>> What are you thinking of for format? Panel discussion? BoF++?
>>> Many-headed hydra-style tutorial?
>>>
>>> If each approach was to submit a standard talk, it might be possible,
>>> scheduling algorithm permitting, to schedule them in order, followed
>>> up by a panel discussion at the end of the day, then a BoF-like
>>> organism during the unconference evening?
>>>
>>> --oh
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> Jason van Zyl
>> Founder, Apache Maven
>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> dash-dev mailing list
>> dash-dev@eclipse.org
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/dash-dev
>
> --
> Nick Boldt :: http://nick.divbyzero.com
|
|
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