| Other IEC Process Control FBD standards [message #1852273] |
Fri, 06 May 2022 19:11  |
 Sentekin Can
Messages: 13
Registered: January 2022 |
Junior Member |
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In the very informative book Modeling Control Systems Using IEC 61499 2nd Edition- By ; Alois Zoitl & Robert Lewis.
The authors state that:
"For this reason, because of its generic nature, IEC 61499 appears to be a rather academic standard. It has been deliberately defined to be 'application domain neutral', i.e. it contains no specific features for any particular industrial application area. It is designed so that other standards can build on the IEC 61499 concepts and add their own domain specific extensions."
Questions::
1. Is IEC-61804 based on IEC-61499? I couldn't find any reference to IEC-61499 where IEC-61408 is mentioned.
2. As various standards published will there be a confirmation authority established., So, each resource manufacturer will be approved?
[Updated on: Fri, 06 May 2022 19:13] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Other IEC Process Control FBD standards [message #1852276 is a reply to message #1852273] |
Sat, 07 May 2022 16:40  |
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First of all I'm happy that Bob's and my book is helpful for you.
Regarding this special paragraph. I think some more explanation is needed. Originally IEC 61499 was developed to be an implementation agnostic standard defining a generic architecture for distributed control applications. The goal was to gather requirements and architecture definitions as basis for improving future version s of IEC 61131-3 and IEC 61804. While the uptake of the results of IEC 61499 was mixed (see my other comment below) in parallel people noted that IEC 61499 defines not only a generic architecture but also a full domains specific modelling language that can be used to implement industrial control applications. Therefore we see now several implementation of IEC 61499 (e.g., Eclipse 4diac) with which you can do anything you need to develop your control solutions. This is a especially possible with the work we did on the second edition of IEC 61499. There we tried to further clarify ambiguous sections. During my work on the second edition of the book I wanted to keep that paragraph in to show where IEC 61499 is coming from.
Regarding your questions:
ad 1) I know that at least one edition of IEC 61804 had an annex how IEC 61804 relates to IEC 61499 and how IEC 61499 can be used to implement IEC 61804. However I don't exactly remember which part and edition it was. Maybe someone else here in the forum knows more.
ad 2) There have been discussions about such an authority. However I would say this depends a bit on what goals you see there. Would it be for a pure IEC 61499 implementation, would it be for a certain application domain. There are quite some aspects involved. Currently there is a new group forming: "Universal Automation" which has some of the goals you mention.
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| Re: Other IEC Process Control FBD standards [message #1852350 is a reply to message #1852291] |
Wed, 11 May 2022 13:29 |
Sentekin Can
Messages: 13
Registered: January 2022 |
Junior Member |
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Thank you very much for your relentless efforts to educate all of us here.
I see the PLC programming languages today like international languages and dictionaries, lLarousse and Merriam-Webster-Webster, to hold meaning of the words in one single language . However, we want an universal language where IEC-61499 comes to help us. Some engineers and programmers will design and explain meaning of the words. There will be only one universal dictionary.
The Electrical Controls Engineers in Manufacturing companies have project duties a few to mention such as; specifications, estimates, ROI, project design and drawings, travels to site and site studies, team and contractor meetings, construction control, start-up, maintenance, etc. They can not afford mistakes causing expensive down-time. If you have been in there during one of those times you will feel breathing of the plant people on your neck. The Controls Engineers will use words (FB's) designed and approved by resource manufacturers to write a book (Project).
I realize this blog place is for Design, however the purpose of the design is to crate a product for the users. The User Controls Engineers do not have time to design the words, even if they did , those words wouldn't be universal and be non-standard. There will always be a need for new FB's and they will be added to the Universal Dictionary by authorized organizations, and should be defined to be easily understood by users as required.
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| Re: Other IEC Process Control FBD standards [message #1852365 is a reply to message #1852350] |
Wed, 11 May 2022 22:00 |
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Yes you have a point here. However there are so many application domains out there is not one library that fits all. I also know many companies developing and maintaining there one set of Function Blocks which are also their core IP. So it is hard to say.
But for other domains having a standardized common set of libraries can be a very helpful. Eclipse 4diac is happy to host such libraries.
For starting the 4diac Examples repository can definitely be a place for them. If we get more of these other repositories would then maybe be better suited.
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