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Up to date documentation?? [message #1795838] Sun, 30 September 2018 20:00 Go to next message
Perdita Stevens is currently offline Perdita StevensFriend
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2016
Junior Member
I taught a software design and modelling course using Papyrus two years ago, and though there were some rough edges, it was basically OK. So, starting to do it again this year, I thought things would be a little better...

...but actually, I'm struggling to the point of wondering whether I should give up. Basic things I could do last time are just not working this time (e.g. sequence diagrams, where I can't get the simplest example to work) and the only documentation I can find is many years out of date.

Yet, to judge from the activity here, some people are actually using Papyrus successfully. So - how? Is there some up to date documentation that I haven't found? Specifically, for example, should I expect to be able to draw a simple sequence diagram (with synchronous messages and returns), or does that not work?

Thanks in advance for any help!
Re: Up to date documentation?? [message #1795867 is a reply to message #1795838] Mon, 01 October 2018 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Rivet is currently offline Charles RivetFriend
Messages: 219
Registered: May 2014
Location: Canada
Senior Member

Hi Perdita,

I need to ask: which version have you downloaded?

Unfortunately, and IMHO, Papyrus is rather expert-friendly. There are a few videos on YouTube that describe some aspects in more details, but their quality is inconsistent and the often lack voice over or descriptions.

That being said, using sequence diagrams is a part of Papyrus that has been (very) problematic in the past and that, believe it or not, improved. It helps that there is an industrial partner for whom this is important and that, consequently, has been providing a lot of support to make them better.

That is a reason why the Papyrus Industry Consortium has taken the initiative to build more specialized tools.

Finally, I would encourage you to list the problems you are having in this forum and, if you feel it warranted, to write bugs when you feel it is warranted.


/Charles Rivet
Re: Up to date documentation?? [message #1795871 is a reply to message #1795867] Mon, 01 October 2018 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Perdita Stevens is currently offline Perdita StevensFriend
Messages: 18
Registered: September 2016
Junior Member
Thanks for the reply, Charles. I have different versions on different machines, but mostly I've been using Eclipse Photon, with what the Papyrus photon update site gives me, i.e. the latest publicised version. (Well, I tried 2018-09 this morning, but in fact the Eclipse installer's clean install of that gives a front page error before I get to Papyrus - have not attempted to debug that yet, just gone back to Photon.)

I have seen various youtube videos, but no up to date ones; if you know a suitable series, please point at it. (Two years ago I did OK with papyrus, so my issues chiefly relate to things that have changed recently.) I'll try to get round to writing proper bug reports, but that's a lot of effort when the issue is rather "everything is hard and there are always four ways of doing anything of which just one works". E.g. I am getting on rather better with sequence diagrams now I've realised that I need to let dropping a message onto a lifeline cause the creation of my ExecutionOccurrence, rather than creating the EO from the palette myself; but it seems to me that both should work equally well. Many similar examples. (I can believe they're hard to catch, because users, especially expert ones such as the tool's own developers, tend to have the one way they do things and not to be aware that other equally reasonable ways don't work.)
Re: Up to date documentation?? [message #1795888 is a reply to message #1795871] Tue, 02 October 2018 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Freggi is currently offline Richard FreggiFriend
Messages: 105
Registered: July 2015
Senior Member
I also use Photon RCP (version 4.0.0) for teaching. It works OK (use case, sequence, class, component diagrams). Switching from Oxygen was a bit of a pain due to some unnecessary and some counter-productive changes. Papyrus is still not up to scratch on sequence diagrams but they can be made to work. If you post specific questions I can give you specific answers on how to do things in 4.0.0.
Re: Up to date documentation?? [message #1795933 is a reply to message #1795871] Tue, 02 October 2018 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Rivet is currently offline Charles RivetFriend
Messages: 219
Registered: May 2014
Location: Canada
Senior Member

Hi Perdita,

Thank you for your feedback.

You stated: Quote:
I have seen various youtube videos, but no up to date ones; if you know a suitable series, please point at it.


I'm not sure it meets your norms, but you can have a look at my list of Papyrus YouTube videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQuZvNs1nWi03IRLNhtaW4Ul_Ego9Rp91http://

And there are also some differences in quality (e.g., videos done by Christian Damus vs. others)

You stated: Quote:
my issues chiefly relate to things that have changed recently.


The videos are created by the developers, at their discretion. As such the frequency of their publications varies and quality varies and so does their publications.

It may not meet your norms, but you could also look at my Papyrus playlist: url=http://bit.ly/CharlesPapyrusvids][/url]

By the way, did you know about the Papyrus UML blog: https://papyrusuml.wordpress.com

There is a page of links in that blog that may be helpful.

You stated: Quote:
writing proper bug reports, but that's a lot of effort when the issue is rather "everything is hard and there are always four ways of doing anything of which just one works


In this particular case, I tend to agree with you. Usability defects can get rather complex. But contributing bug reports is one of the easiest way fo contributing to open source - and so is writing these forum posts - than you again for that, especially for your: Quote:
everything is hard and there are always four ways of doing anything of which just one works
(hoping it gets picked up by the development team...)


/Charles Rivet
Re: Up to date documentation?? [message #1795935 is a reply to message #1795888] Tue, 02 October 2018 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Rivet is currently offline Charles RivetFriend
Messages: 219
Registered: May 2014
Location: Canada
Senior Member

Hi Richard,

Thanks for volunteering!

I hope the development team will take note of any and all answers you provide!



/Charles Rivet
Re: Up to date documentation?? [message #1796255 is a reply to message #1795935] Tue, 09 October 2018 08:43 Go to previous message
Ansgar Radermacher is currently offline Ansgar RadermacherFriend
Messages: 229
Registered: March 2011
Location: Paris Saclay, France
Senior Member
Hi,

thanks to Charles and Richard for providing some feedback! The Papyrus installations for 2018-09 will work fine, if you add its update-site http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/papyrus/updates/releases/2018-09/ instead of passing by the installer.
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