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Sirius on the Web [message #1791131] Sun, 24 June 2018 17:56 Go to next message
Leonid Ripeynih is currently offline Leonid RipeynihFriend
Messages: 149
Registered: February 2012
Senior Member
Hello, Sirius developers!

Can I use Sirius 6.0 to create a modeler on the web?
If anything I'm perfectly happy with using/contributing to an alpha/experimental version as an early adopter.

Thanks for answer in advance!
Re: Sirius on the Web [message #1791175 is a reply to message #1791131] Mon, 25 June 2018 13:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre-Charles David is currently offline Pierre-Charles DavidFriend
Messages: 451
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Leonid Ripeynih wrote on Sun, 24 June 2018 19:56
Hello, Sirius developers!


Hi Leonid,

Quote:

Can I use Sirius 6.0 to create a modeler on the web?


Not yet. In 6.0 (to be released on wednesday), we introduce an experimental version of of "Workflow" DSL which uses web technologies for its UI, but is used in a classical RCP context at the moment. It's a first (small) step in moving towards a client/server architecture, but limited for now to this new feature.

For actual Sirius diagrams usable from inside a browser, we expect to have an initial version this autumn.

Have a look at the Virtual Meetup we did last week to see the current state and roadmap.

Quote:

If anything I'm perfectly happy with using/contributing to an alpha/experimental version as an early adopter.


Thanks for your interest. We're looking for feedback to make sure we address the community's needs and use cases (and sponsors to make things go faster), so do not hesitate to contact us!

Regards,
Pierre-Charles David


Pierre-Charles David - Obeo

Need training or professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius
Re: Sirius on the Web [message #1793570 is a reply to message #1791175] Fri, 10 August 2018 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jean-Sébastien S is currently offline Jean-Sébastien SFriend
Messages: 1
Registered: August 2018
Junior Member
Hi,

I am also very interested in Sirius on browser: having Eclipse modelling capabilities on the web is a crucial point to us.

The web meetup (along with Melanie Bats's blog post) was very insightful, and exciting!
We, indeed, have real example of graphical tools to be delivered to users which are not "modelers". They want to design their models through their a web app portal.
In addition, the modelling environment should look like the company look-and-feel of portal app (I do not know how tricky it could be) .

I would like to know, if we invest in the development of a classical RCP Eclipse, will it be directly "portable" to the "Sirius-web" when available?
Then, it will come to the server-side integration...

Thank you for all the work already achieved!
Best regards,
--
Jean-Sébastien Sottet
Re: Sirius on the Web [message #1794822 is a reply to message #1793570] Fri, 07 September 2018 07:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre-Charles David is currently offline Pierre-Charles DavidFriend
Messages: 451
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Jean-Sébastien,

Sorry for the delayed answer, I was on vacation at the time of your post and did not see it immediatly afterwards.

Quote:

I am also very interested in Sirius on browser: having Eclipse modelling capabilities on the web is a crucial point to us.

The web meetup (along with Melanie Bats's blog post) was very insightful, and exciting!


Thanks for the feedback. It's always nice to hear we're on the right track regarding the community's needs.

Quote:

We, indeed, have real example of graphical tools to be delivered to users which are not "modelers". They want to design their models through their a web app portal.


By "not modelers" I assume you mean not diagrams but other kinds of representations (like tables, trees, property sheets that we already support)? We have several ideas of our own for alternative kinds of representations that would be enabled by the move to the web, but if you have concrete needs we would very much like to hear about them so that we can prioritize our developments. If you'd rather not give details about your application publicly, do not hesitate to contact me directly at pierre-charles.david@obeo.fr.

Quote:

In addition, the modelling environment should look like the company look-and-feel of portal app (I do not know how tricky it could be) .


An important point for us regarding the front-end part is that it should be easy to embed in larger web applications. We're focusing on IDE-like applications at the moment (notably Theia and Eclipse Che), but it should be possible to embed Sirius diagrams (or other representations) in different kinds of applications. "Theming" is not particularly in our priorities at the moment, but it's an interesting point to consider.

Quote:

I would like to know, if we invest in the development of a classical RCP Eclipse, will it be directly "portable" to the "Sirius-web" when available?


The goal is to be compatible with the existing modeler definitions (the .odesign files), but we'll go there progressively, and some mechanisms available in the .odesign files will take time to be supported by the web runtime. In particular, user-defined tools which trigger complex, multi-steps interactions (like opening popups and wizards) will probably not be supported in the first versions. And obviously if you have tools which call into custom Java code that assume they are running in RCP (opening SWT dialogs for example), these will not be portable.

It's too early to be more precise than that, but when things have settled a little more, we'll probably publish guidelines to help specifiers identify features of their modelers that will need adjustments, and indicate what are the portable alternatives.

Quote:

Then, it will come to the server-side integration...


Currently the server is based on Jetty. Its architecture is actually pretty well documented here if you want to have a look (but keep in mind that nothing is set in stone at this point). If you have specific integration scenarios in mind, again don't hesitate to give us details so we can take them into consideration.

Quote:

Thank you for all the work already achieved!


And thanks for you input!


Pierre-Charles David - Obeo

Need training or professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius
Re: Sirius on the Web [message #1796348 is a reply to message #1794822] Thu, 11 October 2018 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nikola Veber is currently offline Nikola VeberFriend
Messages: 28
Registered: December 2017
Junior Member
Hi everyone,

I have just started reading the server architecture document. It states that the sirius server is basically a eclipse RCP App. Do you have any data about it's footprint (memory overhead of having Eclipse running)?
Or any plans on the long run to loosen the integration to eclipse (for instance, make it runnable as an OSGi module in some other container) ?


Thanks,
Nikola
Re: Sirius on the Web [message #1796390 is a reply to message #1796348] Fri, 12 October 2018 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre-Charles David is currently offline Pierre-Charles DavidFriend
Messages: 451
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

Nikola Veber wrote on Thu, 11 October 2018 14:41
Hi everyone,
I have just started reading the server architecture document. It states that the sirius server is basically a eclipse RCP App. Do you have any data about it's footprint (memory overhead of having Eclipse running)?


Yes it is still Eclipse-based at the moment, but we only include the minimum parts of the platform (Equinox, the Core Runtime and the workspace) and Jetty. I don't think we have any data about memory overhead, and it would be difficult to evaluate as we do not have an equivalent baseline without Eclipse to compare with.

Quote:

Or any plans on the long run to loosen the integration to eclipse (for instance, make it runnable as an OSGi module in some other container) ?


Yes, the long-term plan is to make Sirius less dependent on Eclipse and allow deployment/embedding in other (server-side) contexts. To be clear, the goal is not to stop supporting the "classical" Eclipse-based environement, but to make as much of Sirius as possible "platform-agnostic" and to support both Eclipse-based and web-based deployements on top of this shared core.

Regards,


Pierre-Charles David - Obeo

Need training or professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius
Re: Sirius on the Web [message #1796418 is a reply to message #1796390] Fri, 12 October 2018 15:17 Go to previous message
Nikola Veber is currently offline Nikola VeberFriend
Messages: 28
Registered: December 2017
Junior Member
That's great news, thanks!

I hope to find time soon to try it out, and post some info about resource consumption.
Actually, the total memory is most interesting, if that number is small enough, nobody cares about what is running. But if you say "its an eclipse...", the first comment is usually that it is too big to include in some product...

I will be attending your talk in Ludwigsburg, hope we can find a couple of minutes to chat!


Best regards,
Nikola
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