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Documentation for QVTO [message #1782930] Mon, 05 March 2018 10:43 Go to next message
Bruce Trask is currently offline Bruce TraskFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hello,

I was looking https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/modeling.mmt.qvt-oml and followed the documentation link there which led me to https://iot.eclipse.org/.

I was curious if that is what is intented. Is there QVTO documentation at https://iot.eclipse.org somewhere?

Regards,
Bruce
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1782962 is a reply to message #1782930] Mon, 05 March 2018 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 6044
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

Sorry. The redirection to IOT is a very sore point.

(Once upon a time there was M2M = model-to-model. Then along came Machine-to-Machine which was perceived to be more important and so the old M2M was bumped to MMT. But new fangled hype is very transient so new M2M has moved to Internet-Of-Things but refuses to give back the M2M link or even to provide the redirection that was a condition of consenting to the bumping.)

After a bit of investigation it turns out that ...qvto/doc has always been a 404. I've deleted the aspirational link so that hopefully confusion is removed.

For QVTo there are three sources of documentation
- the OMG spec, which I added quite a bit of editorial to for QVT 1.3
- the Eclipse QVTo announcement/first tutorial slides
- the SimpleUML2RDBMS example

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783204 is a reply to message #1782962] Fri, 09 March 2018 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Trask is currently offline Bruce TraskFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Ed,

Thanks for your reply.

I had a follow up question sort of with regards to documentation.

I am seeing some extensive QVT examples in the book "Eclipse Modeling Project" but it seems they last worked with the DSL Toolkit Amalgam release for Ganymede.
I wanted to take some steps to update and port these examples to the lastest release. To do that I wanted to start with the actual Amalgam Ganymede release recommended in the book back in 2009. But I cannot seem to find it anywhere in the eclipse archives. Do you know where I can find it?

Regards,
Bruce

[Updated on: Fri, 09 March 2018 08:17]

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Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783209 is a reply to message #1783204] Fri, 09 March 2018 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 6044
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

I think you may be being misled about Amalgam, which was a worthy attempt to unify the disparate modeling contributions. AFAIAA Amalgam now has two roles.

It provides a Modeling Discovery wizard to assist in installing additional modeling tools. I think this role has been somewhat superseded by the Eclipse Marketplace.

The Modeling EPP is supervised by Amalgam. So perhaps what you are looking for is:

https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/eclipse-modeling-tools-includes-incubating-components/ganymeder

I can see an attraction in using exactly the environment referenced, make sure you use an old Java (probably Java 6), but you risk wasting time on legacy compatibility issues.

Glancing at the features list I see that it has
EMF MINT (no more),
EMF Search (no more - OOMPH tooling provides some searching),
EMF Tools (replaced by Sirius-based tooling similar but not compatible)
EMF Compare (0.9.0 is really really old)
QVTo (1.0.0 was first useable version)
No GIT
No OOMPH
Early Mylyn
....

QVTo-specific examples should work, but many limitations may have vanished. Blackboxes have evolved significantly.

If you are able to upgrade the examples please try to package them as one example per project so that we can add them to the standard QVTo examples shipped with QVTo. (Similar to SimpleUML2RDBMS).

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783211 is a reply to message #1783209] Fri, 09 March 2018 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 6044
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

Correction. You should almost certainly prefer Ganymede SR2.

https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/eclipse-modeling-tools-includes-incubating-components/ganymedesr2

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783216 is a reply to message #1783211] Fri, 09 March 2018 09:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Trask is currently offline Bruce TraskFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Ed,

Thanks for your fast reply.

I checked out the Ganymede incubation modeling download. Evidently this is different than the one needed for the DSL Toolkit examples. The book refers to some "Amalgam DSL Toolkit Download" that is based on Ganymede but different than the modeling Ganymede download. Not sure where exactly I might find this "Amalgam DSL Toolkit Download".

I dug around some more and I did manage to find
http://archive.eclipse.org/modeling/amalgam/dsltk/downloads/drops/I20081128-0606/index.php

Perhaps this is the one I need (or the best available for now) and this does have the sample models and transformations in it. But I wasn't sure if this was the exact one referenced in the book.

Regards,
Bruce

[Updated on: Fri, 09 March 2018 10:00]

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Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783220 is a reply to message #1783216] Fri, 09 March 2018 10:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 6044
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

You clearly know much more than me. I've never heard of the "Amalgam DSL Toolkit Download". Sadly the "Eclipse Modeling Project" book is still on my to-read list. I vaguely recall glancing at the OCL bits and concluding that the book was a valiant attempt to cover material that was well beyond the reasonable understanding of one author. Just had another glance. Ow! there is is some seriously embarrassing material there. So much has improved.

Your questions suggest that you may be quite persistent. If your enthusiasm extends to a "Second Edition" you might manage to rustle up some helpers.

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783226 is a reply to message #1783220] Fri, 09 March 2018 11:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Trask is currently offline Bruce TraskFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Ed,

Just curious as I dive in. You say

> Ow! there is is some seriously embarrassing material there. So much has improved.

You mean the spec has improved or the implementation for the various QVT languages is better and the examples should use the new features?

Regards,
Bruce
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783228 is a reply to message #1783226] Fri, 09 March 2018 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 6044
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

In the case of OCL there is no mention of its UI or CG. Xtext has been a major enabler; just a footnote in the book. Acceleo is unmentioned, a preliminary MOFM2T is but in conjunction with the old MOFscript. No mention of Modisco.

At the lower level, OCL-enhanced EMF validation uses the painful XML embedding of EMFv/EMFq. The inadequacy of this approach motivated the EMF delegate supports that provides a within Ecore rather than a XML-hack representation. The OCLinEcore Xtext editor gives you WYZYWYG and the CG gives you direct Java.

QVTc/QVTr remain futures; I'm working on them now.

Fundamentally QVTo has probably not changed much. My editorial additions to the spec have been more about rationalizing the magic rather than changing anything. Tutorials can help users to understand the rationale.

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783442 is a reply to message #1783228] Tue, 13 March 2018 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bruce Trask is currently offline Bruce TraskFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Ed,

Thanks for the rundown on the changes. I do have another question:

I see the QVT example/samples for the RDMS and the Hierarchal State Machine. One has a qvtc file and the other a qvtr file. Is there also a qvto example? and also you mention that "QVTc/QVTr remain futures; I'm working on them now." But are these examples showing some working functionality for these.

Regards,
Bruce
Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783444 is a reply to message #1783442] Tue, 13 March 2018 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 6044
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

By "QVTo ... the SimpleUML2RDBMS example", I meant the File->New->Example...->Operational QVT Transformation->SimpleUML to RDB Transformation Project.

QVTc and QVTr have been 'editable' for at least six years but only 'executable' for two. However the optimized compilation chain is only suitable for very sympathetic research usage. I was hoping to be able to announce a 1.0.0 for Photon in June 2018, but the combination of a very slow year with many distractions and further discoveries of inadequacies in the OMG specification, particularly in regard to overrides and tracing thereof, mean that Eclipse QVTd 1.0.0 and OMG QVT 1.4 will have to await another year. See the papers on https://wiki.eclipse.org/QVTd/Articles

Regards

Ed Willink

Re: Documentation for QVTO [message #1783481 is a reply to message #1783444] Tue, 13 March 2018 14:22 Go to previous message
Bruce Trask is currently offline Bruce TraskFriend
Messages: 58
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Ed,

> By "QVTo ... the SimpleUML2RDBMS example", I meant the
> File->New->Example...->Operational QVT Transformation
> ->SimpleUML to RDB Transformation Project.

Ah ok. I see that one now. I got it mixed up with File->New->Example...New QVTc UML2RDBMS Project. Did not see the other one. Thanks

> but the combination of a very slow year with many
> distractions and further discoveries of inadequacies
> in the OMG specification, particularly in regard to
> overrides and tracing thereof, mean that Eclipse
> QVTd 1.0.0 and OMG QVT 1.4 will have to await
> another year.

Understood. Well, the work you are doing is much appreciated in any case.

Thanks,
Bruce
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