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Installation problems [message #1768248] Sat, 15 July 2017 16:03 Go to next message
Jeff Evarts is currently offline Jeff EvartsFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: July 2017
Junior Member
Hello!

There doesn't seem to be an installation problems forum, but since I'm a new member of the community, and the first thing you're supposed to do is install the product, I figured this is an ok place to post. My name is Jeff Evarts and while I've been programming professionally since the early 80s, it's been more C/C++ and a little assembly language than Java. I'm totally new to eclipse/java development, so I'm likely to ask odd questions and get the vocabulary all wrong. My apologies in advance.

I first posted about this issue] over on a LWJGL forum, and they were helpful, but this has really devolved to an eclipse-specific problem, so I'm moving the conversation over here.

The steps so far:

1) Install Linux Mint 18.1/Serena (I have also tried all of these steps on Ubuntu 16.04, with identical results)
2) Use Linux installer to install the latest eclipse package (Eclipse + Eclipse-jdt 3.8.1-8)

Someone in another forum pointed out that this was a very very old version of eclipse, and that the latest version was Oxygen. I googled "install eclipse oxygen", which took me to downloads/packages/release/Oxygen/M7. I downloaded the linux/64 link, which is not the ACTUAL install package, it's something else. Unfortunately the README file didn't say what it was or how to get the REAL version.

One of the users at the LWJGL forums pointed me back to another location which appears to be the main download page. Thence I downloaded another gzipped tarball.

I unpacked the tarball and found an "install" executable. This installed things in two directories: $HOME/eclipse and $HOME/.p2.

I didn't want a PERSONAL copy of eclipse. I want it (as is rather normal on Linux) installed for the box, in /usr/local or /usr/bin or /var/..., etc.

After more googling I found a page that suggested moving the $HOME/eclipse to /opt, but I tried /usr/local/eclipse instead. Unfortunately this also did not work, because the eclipse.ini file contains pointers back to my private home directory/.p2!

Then I foolishly then tried to install as root, which left breadcrumbs all over /root/!

I seem to be faced with two alternatives:

1) Install the Eclipse package via the linux installer and live at version 3 (What is that, Juno?)
2) Install Oxygen for every single user.

Since neither of these seems as "professional" as the rest of the Eclipse environment seems to be, I'm hoping there's an installation method I just haven't found yet.

So far I'm 2 days into installing Eclipse, and I seem to be traveling forward in version numbers but backwards in terms of "it works!"

Any help for a newbie member?

Thank you!
-Jeff
Re: Installation problems [message #1768256 is a reply to message #1768248] Sun, 16 July 2017 04:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 30915
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This page will always point at the latest released version of Eclipse:

https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/

Currently that's Oxygen. In the "More Downloads" section of that page, you can access older releases.

Using the installer, you can install any package to any location you like (and for which you have write permissions of course). By default the installer creates an installation that uses a shared bundle pool. You can change the (default) location of the shared bundle pool using Bundle Pools... (on the menu in the upper right). Or you can turn it off (with the little on/off switch located beside that menu item), in which case it creates an installation just like the packages available at

https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/eclipse-packages/

On the second page of the installer you can of course change the location of the installation as well. Note that the advantage of using a shared bundle pool is that you can create multiple installations more quickly (each bundle is downloaded only once) and with dramatically reduced footprint (each bundle is located in the shared pool instead of physically nested in each installation). And, you can just download one of the eclipse-packages directly...

If you want to share the installation(s) with multiple users on the machine, the install folder and the shared bundle pool folder (if you use one) should be read-only to the regular users (including of course all nested files and folders at those locations). This statement also applies if you download an eclipse-package directly...

Note that many developers use more advanced features of the installer by creating an Oomph description of what's needed to work with the source code of their project as described in

https://wiki.eclipse.org/Eclipse_Oomph_Authoring

For example, the Eclipse Platform project has such an Oomph setup for their project and describe how to use it in:

https://wiki.eclipse.org/Platform_UI/How_to_Contribute#Setting_up_your_SDK_for_code_contributions

With this type of use case, in combination with a shared bundle pool, lets you automate the entire process of setting up a specific development environment for working with your specific project's source code. Such installations can be of a more transient nature, i.e., you can quickly and easily delete an old one and create a fresh new one without actually downloading 1000 bundles each time.

Probably you don't want to get this fancy as part of your first experience, but with long term usage, it might well be a good fit for your needs...
Re: Installation problems [message #1768274 is a reply to message #1768256] Sun, 16 July 2017 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Evarts is currently offline Jeff EvartsFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: July 2017
Junior Member
Ed,

Thank you kindly for your reply. As is too often the case when someone tries to help a newbie, the newbie gets more confused rather than less. I hope we can keep talking until the issues are resolved.

Strangely, I get the impression that at some point, in an effort to make installing eclipse easier, a lot of effort was put forth, but the process went awry. Most Linux users expect nothing more than a reasonably fresh rpm/deb package, and are willing to make do with that. Eclipse has added "Help>Install New Software" and "Help>Check For Updates", which:

a) probably only apply to eclipse software and updates (duh, but still potentially confusing languange-wise)
b) can't actually work unless the current user has root privileges. Hopefully people are NOT running eclipse as root.

Somewhere in all this the "easy, straightforward, standard use case" nature of a software install was lost. Am I wrong? I've installed a hundred different packages on Linux in the recent past, and none have been as difficult as Eclipse. That's NOT a complaint. It's obvious that a lot of effort is going into the project with an emphasis on installation and updates. I'm just relaying some confusion and difficulty on the part of what I think may be a fairly sophisticated unix/linux/bsd admin.

Moving on...

Ed Merks wrote on Sun, 16 July 2017 04:34
This page will always point at the latest released version of Eclipse:

https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/

Currently that's Oxygen. In the "More Downloads" section of that page, you can access older releases.

Using the installer, you can install any package to any location you like (and for which you have write permissions of course).


Er, which installer? The Linux software installer, the BSD package manager, or something that's eclipse-specific? I am fairly confident that people trying to install eclipse are not going to expect to have to download and manage a new batch of installation management software in order to use eclipse. Does this have to do with the Help>Install New Software thingie?

If that is indeed a requirement, eclipse needs to be more clear.

Quote:
By default the installer creates an installation that uses a shared bundle pool.


I am not sure what a bundle pool is. Is it something specific to eclipse? If so, do I need to understand it in order to install eclipse? You go on to say that the eclipse-specific installer oomph is customizable;
Quote:
...

Probably you don't want to get this fancy as part of your first experience, but with long term usage, it might well be a good fit for your needs...


And again, Ed, I thank you for all this information. My original conundrum was:

Quote:
I seem to be faced with two alternatives:
1) Install the Eclipse package via the linux installer and live at version 3 (What is that, Juno?)
2) Install Oxygen for every single user.


It appears (from what you tell me) that this is indeed the case. If I use the Linux installer, it installs Juno machine-wide. If I use the Oxygen/Oomph installer, it can do a sort of cooperative/shared user-space install, but not a machine-wide one.

If there is anyone from the Eclipse install community monitoring this channel, I strongly suggest that this be fixed. On unixy/linuxy machines, the expectation is to install software on a machine-wide basis. Having a non-standard system (not pkg/deb/etc) which does The Wrong Thing is not (perhaps) optimal user relations.

Perhaps it's worth reiterating the core question:

What are the steps required to install Oxygen-level eclipse on a (whole) linux box?

If there is no answer to that question (other than becoming an Oomph expert first) then perhaps there is some kind of problem that eclipse.org and the folks at oomph should address.

If there IS a simple answer, I suggest the instructions be put up on the web somewhere.

Ed, if it's #2, can you please post the instructions here?
-Jeff

[Updated on: Sun, 16 July 2017 17:02]

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Re: Installation problems [message #1768291 is a reply to message #1768274] Mon, 17 July 2017 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 30915
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
If someone or some organization funds the development of a specialized Linux-based installer, then there would be one. For Windows, there's a *.exe version of the installer (native executable) that you can just run, without having to unzip something, and it checks which versions of Java are already installed to ensure there is a version (high enough version with the correct bitness) that can actually run Eclipse.

The main download page https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ has a Download button. That will always download "the Eclipse installer" and that can be used to install the latest release (Oxygen). In an effort to simplify the download page, the link to the instructions for using the installer have become hard to find: https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/eclipse-packages/?show_instructions=TRUE

So no, don't do 1) because you'll get old versions. You can use the Eclipse installer to install a read-only copy of the installation for every single user, either using a shared bundle pool (the default behavior, which you can control, and which must then also be read-only if you use that), or without one via the menu on the Eclipse installer (see instructions for using the installer).

The main download page also has a link "Download Packages" that links to https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/eclipse-packages where you can get prepackaged installations. This page too will always point at packages of the latest release. You can unpackage that anywhere. If you want it to be shared by all users, it must be read-only to the users.

Note again that the key to a shared install isn't how you install it (with the Oomph installer, with or without a shared bundle pool, or by unpackaging a download package), but rather that (all parts) of the installation be read-only to the user. In that case, the Eclipse runtime creates a "surrogate/extension" installation in the user's ~/.eclipse/<some-hash-base-name> folder such that the user's perception is that they have an installation that they can personally extend with Help -> Install New Software that will extend the base read-only installation without modifying the parts shared by all users. I don't find the instructions at http://help.eclipse.org/oxygen/index.jsp?topic=%2Forg.eclipse.platform.doc.isv%2Freference%2Fmisc%2Fmulti_user_installs.html all that helpful... Others ask the same question https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1603454/is-it-possible-for-a-team-to-use-eclipse-installed-on-a-shared-network-drive but in the end, it's a matter of making the folder(s) read-only.




Re: Installation problems [message #1768351 is a reply to message #1768291] Mon, 17 July 2017 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Evarts is currently offline Jeff EvartsFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: July 2017
Junior Member
Ed Merks wrote on Mon, 17 July 2017 06:40
If someone or some organization funds the development of a specialized Linux-based installer, then there would be one. For Windows, there's a *.exe version of the installer (native executable) that you can just run, without having to unzip something, and it checks which versions of Java are already installed to ensure there is a version (high enough version with the correct bitness) that can actually run Eclipse.

The main download page https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/ has a Download button. That will always download "the Eclipse installer" and that can be used to install the latest release (Oxygen). In an effort to simplify the download page, the link to the instructions for using the installer have become hard to find: https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/eclipse-packages/?show_instructions=TRUE


I feel like Arthur Dent: "It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'beware of the leopard'".

But even AFTER finding this page, no joy.

Clicking on the "download installer" link takes you to a page with NO INSTALLER.

It DOES offer you a highly comedic loop-round-to-the-beginning link to the wacky nonstandard installer archive, and some other related software, but the ONE thing it definitely DOES NOT do is help you install the software.

Am I being punked? Is this some giant ridiculous clown's game for the entertainment of the folks in this forum?

Surely this is all a misunderstanding? No software organization would possibly make it this hard to install a useable copy of their software?

My sincere thanks to those who have tried to explain and or help. I really have heard good things about Eclipse, and would like to give it a try.
-Jeff
Re: Installation problems [message #1768360 is a reply to message #1768351] Mon, 17 July 2017 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 30915
Registered: July 2009
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I'm not sure what you're looking for or looking at... But it's pointless to simply repeat myself; that would be a comedic-loop-resource-to-the-beginning....
Re: Installation problems [message #1772666 is a reply to message #1768248] Wed, 13 September 2017 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M. Luisa Gonzalez is currently offline M. Luisa GonzalezFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2017
Junior Member
I have just the same problem than Jeff. I'm not an english native speaker, so I can miss some details.
Tried some links and some changes, some hours doing things, but no success...
I hope someone can help us...
Thanks

M. Luisa
Re: Installation problems [message #1772696 is a reply to message #1772666] Thu, 14 September 2017 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 30915
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I've tried to help Jeff, but that effort seemed to go into a loop. But without details from you, I'm not sure exactly what problem you're having. The installer won't run? You're on Linux?
Re: Installation problems [message #1772710 is a reply to message #1772696] Thu, 14 September 2017 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tauno Voipio is currently offline Tauno VoipioFriend
Messages: 530
Registered: August 2014
Senior Member
Here is a direct link to the installer for Linux: <https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/eclipse-packages/index.php?osType=linux&release=undefined>. Just click 32-bit or 64-bit link and get the file.

Install the file from Linux console:
tar -xzvf eclipse-inst-linux32.tar.gz, or
tar -xzvf eclipse-inst-linux64.tar.gz,
depending on the bitness on your Linux.

You need to have a Java Development Kit (JDK) on the system. It can be installed from the distribution repository, or downloaded and installed from Oracle Java download pages.





--

Tauno Voipio
Re: Installation problems [message #1772748 is a reply to message #1772696] Thu, 14 September 2017 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M. Luisa Gonzalez is currently offline M. Luisa GonzalezFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2017
Junior Member
I'll try to explain it:

We are using Ubuntu Linux 16.04 in a computer.
Two people use it: two users, with different username, etc. Say userA, userB

I'm userA. I have installed and used Eclipse without problems.

But userB would need install another copy in the same computer. We feel that we don't need two copies.

So I tried to make just one installation (acting as administrator, i.e. root), in /opt folder, in order to any user of my computer can use Eclipse (in his/her own workspace, of course).

I've done it, as root, but, when userB try Eclipse, he gets an error, related to the fact that userB cannot access to some folder
(or file, I don't remember now, I have already uninstalled it)
in /root/.p2

Which is normal: userB musn't access there, and he cannot: he has no privileges.

Of course, root can use Eclipse without problems. But nor userA nor userB.

Giving privileges of root to normal users is not a solution.

I tried to touch config files, but I don't have enough knowledge to do it.

I've explained it as well as I could. Thanks
M. Luisa
Re: Installation problems [message #1772768 is a reply to message #1772748] Fri, 15 September 2017 02:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 30915
Registered: July 2009
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It sounds like this post: https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/m/1770774/?srch=bundle+pool#msg_1770774
Re: Installation problems [message #1772821 is a reply to message #1772768] Fri, 15 September 2017 17:30 Go to previous message
M. Luisa Gonzalez is currently offline M. Luisa GonzalezFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: September 2017
Junior Member
Ok, thank you!
I've got it. Not perfect, probably, but running.
These are the steps I followed (just in case it's useful for someone else):

- run the installer as root
- in the first screen, where you choose "Eclipse IDE for ...", once you have chosen,
click icon next to (right) "Bundle Pool"
(there, it propose /root/.p2 or something like that).
It's "Manage Bundle Pools..."
- then select "New agent" and a folder you like. I've used /var/opt/.p2
Now you have /var/opt/.p2/pool in "Bundle Pool" (or your choice)
- next, next
- in "Root Install Folder" I choose /opt (instead of /root ...)
- next...

Now, I can start eclipse as normal user using command
/opt/java-latest-released/eclipse/eclipse

(instead of "latest-released", I would have to choose "oxygen" somewhere).
It seems to work fine, despite some messages on console...

I'm sure it can be done better...

Thanks again
M. Luisa
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