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Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729908] Wed, 20 April 2016 08:47 Go to next message
Thomas Beale is currently offline Thomas BealeFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2016
Junior Member
This is probably a somewhat from left-field question on modelling and meta-modelling, hopefully someone can help with it.

It's to do with the basic problem of formal model representation. There are many ways of doing it. For some (many?) it was supposed to be UML/XMI. Now as we all know, XMI is pretty horrible, not human-readable, over-complicated due to the over-complicated UML meta-model and also non- standardly (or just not..) implemented by different tools. A very well-known story.

In our community (openEHR.org, 'EHR' = Electronic Health Record) which has been publishing specifications and models to do with health data and semantics for over 15 years, we had to make a decision over 10 years ago on how we would represent normal object models formally. We avoided XMI for the reasons mentioned above. We considered IDL, various programming languages, and I remember having looked at EMF/Ecore as it was then (maybe 2005) and thinking it needed more work.

So we did the inevitable and wrote our own meta-model, which has a) a concrete JSON-like syntax called ODIN (invented before JSON existed), and b) the semantic model (think of it as an AST style model) called Basic Meta-Model (BMM).

The ODIN syntax just enables a BMM model instance to be serialised as computable and (reasonably) human-readable /editable files (example), so it's not important here. The main thing is the BMM semantic model, which I designed based on the semantics available in the Eiffel language, e.g. MI, generic types and the usual OO structural semantics. Right now it doesn't represent routines / functions etc, only the structural aspect.

From time to time, the Eclipse cognoscenti in our community tell me we should migrate / evolve / otherwise upgrade the BMM approach to something based on EMF/Ecore. I'd be happy to look at this, but need help on identifying the right resources, There two things I can think of that would be interesting. There is an Ecore syntax which I believe is called EMFtext that I see here, which looks nice, and then there is the Ecore meta-model. For the latter, I see all sorts of diagrams and model documentations all over the web, and of course Eclipse.org documentation e.g. here.

What I'd like to obtain are pointers to the definitive current versions of both the syntax and the Ecore meta-model. I have spent some time looking at both in the past, and when I couldn't find some feature, e.g. generics (that is a must for us), I was told, you need to get the current version, you have an old version etc etc. So I hope it's clear what I'm asking for, and it would be most appreciated if someone could help me find definitive and latest versions of these resources.

thanks

- thomas
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729925 is a reply to message #1729908] Wed, 20 April 2016 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 5347
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

You need to separate the human-friendly representation from the
computer-friendly serialization.

XMI is a good compromise between the two, semi-readable but amenable to
many forms of automated tooling. Therefore running away from XML/XMI is
a very unwise move. "X"tensibility is very powerful.

For a human-friendly representation you have many choices all sharing
the same underlying Ecore XMI model.

The minimal out of the box support is the Sample Ecore Editor that gives
you a tree representation.

Sirius gives you a graphical (UML-like) editor for the same model.

Emfatic gives you a text-based representation.

Xcore gives you a text-based representation that uses embedded Xbase to
auto-generate richer Java.

OCLinEcore gives you a text-based representation that uses embedded OCL
to auto-generate richer Java.

---

EMFtext has many similarities to Xtext in privisding support for DSLs.
THere may well be an Ecore variant distributed with it.

---

If you want to do serious modelling, then you may prefer UML.

Papyrus providers compreghemsive support.

There are partial text representations such as TextUML.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 20/04/2016 09:47, Thomas Beale wrote:
> This is probably a somewhat from left-field question on modelling and
> meta-modelling, hopefully someone can help with it.
>
> It's to do with the basic problem of formal model representation.
> There are many ways of doing it. For some (many?) it was supposed to
> be UML/XMI. Now as we all know, XMI is pretty horrible, not
> human-readable, over-complicated due to the over-complicated UML
> meta-model and also non- standardly (or just not..) implemented by
> different tools. A very well-known story.
>
> In our community (http://www.openehr.org/, 'EHR' = Electronic Health
> Record) which has been publishing
> http://www.openehr.org/programs/specification/releases/currentbaseline
> to do with health data and semantics for over 15 years, we had to make
> a decision over 10 years ago on how we would represent normal object
> models formally. We avoided XMI for the reasons mentioned above. We
> considered IDL, various programming languages, and I remember having
> looked at EMF/Ecore as it was then (maybe 2005) and thinking it needed
> more work.
>
> So we did the inevitable and wrote our own meta-model, which has a) a
> concrete JSON-like syntax called
> http://www.openehr.org/releases/BASE/latest/docs/odin/odin.html
> (invented before JSON existed), and b) the semantic model (think of it
> as an AST style model) called
> http://www.openehr.org/releases/BASE/latest/docs/bmm/bmm.html (BMM).
>
> The ODIN syntax just enables a BMM model instance to be serialised as
> computable and (reasonably) human-readable /editable files
> (https://github.com/openEHR/reference-models/tree/master/models/openEHR/Release-1.0.2/BMM),
> so it's not important here. The main thing is the BMM semantic model,
> which I designed based on the semantics available in the Eiffel
> language, e.g. MI, generic types and the usual OO structural
> semantics. Right now it doesn't represent routines / functions etc,
> only the structural aspect.
>
> From time to time, the Eclipse cognoscenti in our community tell me we
> should migrate / evolve / otherwise upgrade the BMM approach to
> something based on EMF/Ecore. I'd be happy to look at this, but need
> help on identifying the right resources, There two things I can think
> of that would be interesting. There is an Ecore syntax which I believe
> is called EMFtext that I
> http://www.emftext.org/index.php/EMFText_Concrete_Syntax_Zoo_Ecore,
> which looks nice, and then there is the Ecore meta-model. For the
> latter, I see all sorts of diagrams and model documentations all over
> the web, and of course Eclipse.org documentation e.g.
> https://eclipse.org/modeling/emf/docs/.
>
> What I'd like to obtain are pointers to the definitive current
> versions of both the syntax and the Ecore meta-model. I have spent
> some time looking at both in the past, and when I couldn't find some
> feature, e.g. generics (that is a must for us), I was told, you need
> to get the current version, you have an old version etc etc. So I hope
> it's clear what I'm asking for, and it would be most appreciated if
> someone could help me find definitive and latest versions of these
> resources.
>
> thanks
>
> - thomas
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729933 is a reply to message #1729925] Wed, 20 April 2016 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seref Arikan is currently offline Seref ArikanFriend
Messages: 70
Registered: August 2010
Member
Hi Ed,
Your response contains a lot of useful information , but I'm not sure if it is relevant to what Thomas is asking.

He is basically asking where he can find a full specification of the ECore meta-model in order to assess its capabilities to represent various concepts such as generics etc. as he explains in his message.

All the tools and frameworks you mentioned do leverage ECore but they are not what he is asking for. I'd be equally interested to know if there is a primary document for ECore meta model.

Cheers
Seref
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729938 is a reply to message #1729933] Wed, 20 April 2016 11:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 28698
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Guys,

There is no formal documentation for Ecore. Ecore is ismorphic to EMOF
and the OMG has a formal definition for that; but it's not pretty
reading and is unlikely to give you what you need (a good
understanding). For Ecore you'll only get informal documentation, and
for Xcore (one of the human readable syntax for Ecore) there is even
less documentation. There is of course the EMF book, but it doesn't
describe the generics that were added since the book was published.

Note thought that thousands of projects use EMF/Ecore successfully to
build large applications, without formal documentation. The Canadian
Space Agency, for example, is using Xcore successfully to help build
their remote explorer software. There's plenty of getting-started
information and there are always answers to the questions raised on the
newsgroup.


On 20.04.2016 12:44, Seref Arikan wrote:
> Hi Ed, Your response contains a lot of useful information , but I'm
> not sure if it is relevant to what Thomas is asking.
> He is basically asking where he can find a full specification of the
> ECore meta-model in order to assess its capabilities to represent
> various concepts such as generics etc. as he explains in his message.
>
> All the tools and frameworks you mentioned do leverage ECore but they
> are not what he is asking for. I'd be equally interested to know if
> there is a primary document for ECore meta model.
> Cheers
> Seref
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729942 is a reply to message #1729938] Wed, 20 April 2016 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Beale is currently offline Thomas BealeFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2016
Junior Member
thanks for these answers. Just a bit more context. We use UML for documenting specifications (using the MagicDraw tool, which is pretty faithful to the UML meta-model). But hardly any vendor companies use UML computationally, i.e. they just read the specs and do software development by other means. The XMI (actually MD files) are published openly, and some people suck that into Eclipse, but of course not everyone uses Eclipse - there are C#, Ruby, Python, you name it implementations.

Anyway, the short version is: we can obtain XMI of our own information models - that is the save format of MagicDraw. However, for wide use in other tools (again, often not Eclipse or even Java), a much more lightweight model representation format is needed (XMI is not considered by many in the community to be a good syntax, and we have had much trouble with even interoperating between RSA, Eclipse, MagicDraw, BOUML and EA). We have our own meta-model and syntax and it works nicely, but is of course it is just our own local (non-)standard.

So the idea was to consider morphing both our current concrete syntax to something 'nice' (e.g. EMFtext looks like a proper abstract syntax in the style of IDL to me - but if I understand correctly, you are saying it is just one possible editor syntax?) and also see if it could make sense to move closer to the meta-model of Ecore. However, we don't want to complicate our meta-model by going to the full UML meta-model - frankly, that is horribly over-complicated and actually somewhat broken in various places.

It is of course due to the wide use of Eclipse EMF and related tools that we thought of looking at it, and a lot of serious modelling types use it. If I understand correctly the meta-model that Ecore is based on must be something close to the models shown in section 12.2 of the latest OMG MOF spec? These seem pretty clean, although I can't see generics anywhere.

I just had a look at XCore as well. It seems like the kind of syntax that we could use, going by this post.

thanks for the help.

- thomas
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729948 is a reply to message #1729942] Wed, 20 April 2016 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Dorner is currently offline Felix DornerFriend
Messages: 226
Registered: December 2015
Senior Member
On 20-Apr-16 14:10, Thomas Beale wrote:

> It is of course due to the wide use of Eclipse EMF and related tools
> that we thought of looking at it, and a lot of serious modelling types
> use it.

Very serious rocket engineer and space exploration kind of types.

> If I understand correctly the meta-model that Ecore is based on
> must be something close to the models shown in section 12.2 of the
> latest OMG MOF spec? These seem pretty clean, although I can't see
> generics anywhere.

I think you picked the right section. Generics were added later to Ecore.

I am quite sure that Ed & friends have submitted an evolution request to
the OMG, but you know... bureacracy. :P
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729952 is a reply to message #1729948] Wed, 20 April 2016 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 5347
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

Ecore and EMOF were certainly very similar, but that was many years ago
and the politics of that time are long forgotten.

The Sample Ecore Editor can load/save *.emof files.

Ecore has evolved to be modeling for Java, hence the addition of generics.

EMOF is the 'Essential' MOF - lightweight sub-language of full UML/MOF.

I see very little likelihood that the complexities of UML templates
would migrate into MOF. I doubt that anyone has even suggested it.

I understand that occasionally lateral thinkers at OMG suggest
abandoning MOF in favour of Ecore - at least for official XMI
distributions. But that would require that Ecore was standarized...

Perhaps the most significant subtle difference between EMOF and Ecore is
the distinct lower/upper/ordered/unique defaults.

Regards

Ed Willink



On 20/04/2016 13:40, Felix Dorner wrote:
> On 20-Apr-16 14:10, Thomas Beale wrote:
>
>> It is of course due to the wide use of Eclipse EMF and related tools
>> that we thought of looking at it, and a lot of serious modelling types
>> use it.
>
> Very serious rocket engineer and space exploration kind of types.
>
>> If I understand correctly the meta-model that Ecore is based on
>> must be something close to the models shown in section 12.2 of the
>> latest OMG MOF spec? These seem pretty clean, although I can't see
>> generics anywhere.
>
> I think you picked the right section. Generics were added later to Ecore.
>
> I am quite sure that Ed & friends have submitted an evolution request
> to the OMG, but you know... bureacracy. :P
>
>
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729961 is a reply to message #1729948] Wed, 20 April 2016 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Beale is currently offline Thomas BealeFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2016
Junior Member
Felix Dorner wrote on Wed, 20 April 2016 12:40
On 20-Apr-16 14:10, Thomas Beale wrote:

> It is of course due to the wide use of Eclipse EMF and related tools
> that we thought of looking at it, and a lot of serious modelling types
> use it.

Very serious rocket engineer and space exploration kind of types.


Actually, even some of us in e-health, and I can tell you that is no simple domain. (I originally come from SCADA R/T control systems, so I know what you mean about rocket & space types as well Smile

Quote:

> If I understand correctly the meta-model that Ecore is based on
> must be something close to the models shown in section 12.2 of the
> latest OMG MOF spec? These seem pretty clean, although I can't see
> generics anywhere.

I think you picked the right section. Generics were added later to Ecore.


So, just to be very annoying, where would I find that resulting model in EMF-land? Even a PNG would do, although MagicDraw file would be even nicer; failing that XMI, and we see if we can make it go....

Quote:

I am quite sure that Ed & friends have submitted an evolution request to
the OMG, but you know... bureacracy. Razz


It's a bit hard to believe it is not built-in for ... say the last 10 years. It's not like anyone write any software or models that are not full of List<T> or Hash<K,V> etc. (I hear you... don't go there...).

- thomas
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729963 is a reply to message #1729952] Wed, 20 April 2016 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thomas Beale is currently offline Thomas BealeFriend
Messages: 5
Registered: April 2016
Junior Member
Two things:

First, can you tell me what the status of emof is as a format in the Eclipse community? Is it 'everyone uses it, only luddites don't' or ... just for a certain purpose or....?

Secondly, on the templates (generics) thing, we did that without too much trouble in our BMM formalism. This adequately enables both generic classes to be defined, e.g.
Interval <T>, Hash<K:Comparable,V>
etc, and also generic types to be used, e.g.
Hash<String, SomeType>
. Also nesting e.g.
Hash<String, List<Thing>>
.

The Ecore additions must do the same kind of thing. Well, I know Richard Soley, maybe I should bug him Wink

- thomas

Ed Willink wrote on Wed, 20 April 2016 13:13
Hi

Ecore and EMOF were certainly very similar, but that was many years ago
and the politics of that time are long forgotten.

The Sample Ecore Editor can load/save *.emof files.

Ecore has evolved to be modeling for Java, hence the addition of generics.

EMOF is the 'Essential' MOF - lightweight sub-language of full UML/MOF.

I see very little likelihood that the complexities of UML templates
would migrate into MOF. I doubt that anyone has even suggested it.

I understand that occasionally lateral thinkers at OMG suggest
abandoning MOF in favour of Ecore - at least for official XMI
distributions. But that would require that Ecore was standarized...

Perhaps the most significant subtle difference between EMOF and Ecore is
the distinct lower/upper/ordered/unique defaults.

Regards

Ed Willink



>

Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729965 is a reply to message #1729963] Wed, 20 April 2016 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 28698
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Thomas,

Comments below.

On 20.04.2016 16:48, Thomas Beale wrote:
> Two things:
>
> First, can you tell me what the status of emof is as a format in the
> Eclipse community? Is it 'everyone uses it, only luddites don't' or
> ... just for a certain purpose or....?
No one uses it. I don't even know of any tools that produce or consume
it. But we can produce and consume it. Check mark for standard
compliance. :-)
>
> Secondly, on the templates (generics) thing, we did that without too
> much trouble
> http://www.openehr.org/releases/BASE/latest/docs/bmm/bmm.html#_core_package.
> This adequately enables both generic classes to be defined, e.g.
> Interval <T>, Hash<K:Comparable,V> etc, and also generic types to be
> used, e.g. Hash<String, SomeType>. Also nesting e.g. Hash<String,
> List<Thing>>.
>
> The Ecore additions must do the same kind of thing.
Yes, they do.
> Well, I know Richard Soley, maybe I should bug him ;)
I don't think the OMG is interested in adding generics to the core
metamodel. But I couldn't say for sure. I'm not personally involved
in the OMG's ongoing evolution, nor even all that interested in it.
Suffice that EMF's Ecore is a pragmatic way of implementing a great many
OMG standards.
>
> - thomas
>
> Ed Willink wrote on Wed, 20 April 2016 13:13
>> Hi
>>
>> Ecore and EMOF were certainly very similar, but that was many years
>> ago and the politics of that time are long forgotten.
>>
>> The Sample Ecore Editor can load/save *.emof files.
>>
>> Ecore has evolved to be modeling for Java, hence the addition of
>> generics.
>>
>> EMOF is the 'Essential' MOF - lightweight sub-language of full UML/MOF.
>>
>> I see very little likelihood that the complexities of UML templates
>> would migrate into MOF. I doubt that anyone has even suggested it.
>>
>> I understand that occasionally lateral thinkers at OMG suggest
>> abandoning MOF in favour of Ecore - at least for official XMI
>> distributions. But that would require that Ecore was standarized...
>>
>> Perhaps the most significant subtle difference between EMOF and Ecore
>> is the distinct lower/upper/ordered/unique defaults.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Ed Willink
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>
>
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729972 is a reply to message #1729965] Wed, 20 April 2016 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 5347
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi
>> First, can you tell me what the status of emof is as a format in the
>> Eclipse community? Is it 'everyone uses it, only luddites don't' or
>> ... just for a certain purpose or....?
> No one uses it. I don't even know of any tools that produce or
> consume it. But we can produce and consume it. Check mark for
> standard compliance. :-)
No one uses it seriously.
I have occasionally acquired *.emof from third parties and found that
not everything works perfectly.
You can probably find about 5 EMOF Bugzillas with my name on. IIRC they
have all been fixed.

EMOF => Ecore is potentially lossless
Ecore => EMOF can be very lossy

Regards

Ed Willink
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729998 is a reply to message #1729952] Wed, 20 April 2016 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Dorner is currently offline Felix DornerFriend
Messages: 226
Registered: December 2015
Senior Member
On 20-Apr-16 15:13, Ed Willink wrote:

> I see very little likelihood that the complexities of UML templates
> would migrate into MOF. I doubt that anyone has even suggested it.
Oh it seems I wasn't ironic enough :)
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1729999 is a reply to message #1729961] Wed, 20 April 2016 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Dorner is currently offline Felix DornerFriend
Messages: 226
Registered: December 2015
Senior Member
On 20-Apr-16 16:39, Thomas Beale wrote:

> So, just to be very annoying, where would I find that resulting model in
> EMF-land? Even a PNG would do, although MagicDraw file would be even
> nicer; failing that XMI, and we see if we can make it go....

How about Ecore.ecore and feeding it to EcoreTools?

Felix
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1730029 is a reply to message #1729999] Thu, 21 April 2016 05:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 28698
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
There are diagrams for Ecore in the Javadoc. :-P

http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.11/org/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html

If we wants a diagram for his own Ecore model he can of course use
EcoreTools. It wasn't clear if he wanted to use Ecore to define his own
(meta) model or to use Ecore directly instead of his own (meta) model.


On 20.04.2016 20:48, Felix Dorner wrote:
> On 20-Apr-16 16:39, Thomas Beale wrote:
>
>> So, just to be very annoying, where would I find that resulting model in
>> EMF-land? Even a PNG would do, although MagicDraw file would be even
>> nicer; failing that XMI, and we see if we can make it go....
>
> How about Ecore.ecore and feeding it to EcoreTools?
>
> Felix
>
>
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1730139 is a reply to message #1730029] Thu, 21 April 2016 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Felix Dorner is currently offline Felix DornerFriend
Messages: 295
Registered: March 2012
Senior Member
On 21/04/2016 07:48, Ed Merks wrote:
> There are diagrams for Ecore in the Javadoc. :-P
>
> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.11/org/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html
>
>
Go figure! I WAS looking on this page, but didn't scroll down :D
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1730141 is a reply to message #1730139] Thu, 21 April 2016 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Willink is currently offline Ed WillinkFriend
Messages: 5347
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi

I searched sideways and gave up.

Scrolling down. Oops. No EGenericType. Needs a refresh using Ecore Tools
rather than Rose.

Regards

Ed Willink

On 21/04/2016 17:53, Felix Dorner wrote:
> On 21/04/2016 07:48, Ed Merks wrote:
>> There are diagrams for Ecore in the Javadoc. :-P
>>
>> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.11/org/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html
>>
>>
>>
> Go figure! I WAS looking on this page, but didn't scroll down :D
>
>
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1730170 is a reply to message #1730141] Fri, 22 April 2016 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 28698
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Keep scrolling until you get to the very bottom:

http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.11/org/eclipse/emf/ecore/doc-files/Generics.gif

On 21.04.2016 19:21, Ed Willink wrote:
> Hi
>
> I searched sideways and gave up.
>
> Scrolling down. Oops. No EGenericType. Needs a refresh using Ecore
> Tools rather than Rose.
>
> Regards
>
> Ed Willink
>
> On 21/04/2016 17:53, Felix Dorner wrote:
>> On 21/04/2016 07:48, Ed Merks wrote:
>>> There are diagrams for Ecore in the Javadoc. :-P
>>>
>>> http://download.eclipse.org/modeling/emf/emf/javadoc/2.11/org/eclipse/emf/ecore/package-summary.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Go figure! I WAS looking on this page, but didn't scroll down :D
>>
>>
>
Re: Ecore meta-model formal documentation? [message #1731052 is a reply to message #1730170] Mon, 02 May 2016 14:54 Go to previous message
Cedric Brun is currently offline Cedric BrunFriend
Messages: 418
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

I just noticed this thread, sorry for bumping it up but as the developper behind EcoreTools I had to do something.

Here are high-resolution diagrams re-created with the version of EcoreTools which got released as part of Eclipse Mars last year:

http://cedric.brun.io/eclipse/ecore-ecore-diagrams/

Ed, I can submit a gerrit patchset for EMF if you'd like.


http://cedric.brun.io news and articles on eclipse and eclipse modeling.
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