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Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701432] Mon, 13 July 2015 12:38 Go to next message
Vlad Dumitrescu is currently offline Vlad DumitrescuFriend
Messages: 431
Registered: July 2009
Location: Gothenburg
Senior Member
Hi!

I'm not entirely sure this post belongs to the platform, but almost.

The actions framework has been deprecated for three years ago, I think. The related extension points refer to the new commands framework, but not all functionality is easily updated (for example, action sets). What is more, the platform itself still uses the deprecated extension points (for example, for cheatsheets). Likewise does the JDT, where most of us third-party developers primarily turn to for inspiration about how to implement UI stuff. So for plugin developers, there's no way to get rid of all deprecation warnings.

By the way, there are also inconsistencies regarding the deprecation: for example, actionSets are deprecated, but IPageLayout.addActionSet is not....

Similar questions have been asked on the forums before, and many of them are still unanswered. I think that it would be useful to have an authoritative answer about this: when will the workbench go over to the new commands framework? I think that even PDE will have to support that in order for it to be useful.

At the very, very least I'd like to be able to suppress the deprecation warnings, since there is nothing I can do about them anyway...

At the most, it would be extremely cool if there was a tool to do most of the conversion from actions automagically, but a complete tutorial would be enough.

best regards,
Vlad

Re: Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701444 is a reply to message #1701432] Mon, 13 July 2015 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 33108
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

I think you're looking for Window -> Preferences... -> Plug-in
Development -> Compilers -> Usage of deprecated attributes and elements.

On 13/07/2015 2:38 PM, Vlad Dumitrescu wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm not entirely sure this post belongs to the platform, but almost.
>
> The actions framework has been deprecated for three years ago, I
> think. The related extension points refer to the new commands
> framework, but not all functionality is easily updated (for example,
> action sets). What is more, the platform itself still uses the
> deprecated extension points (for example, for cheatsheets). Likewise
> does the JDT, where most of us third-party developers primarily turn
> to for inspiration about how to implement UI stuff. So for plugin
> developers, there's no way to get rid of all deprecation warnings.
>
> By the way, there are also inconsistencies regarding the deprecation:
> for example, actionSets are deprecated, but IPageLayout.addActionSet
> is not....
>
> Similar questions have been asked on the forums before, and many of
> them are still unanswered. I think that it would be useful to have an
> authoritative answer about this: when will the workbench go over to
> the new commands framework? I think that even PDE will have to
> support that in order for it to be useful.
>
> At the very, very least I'd like to be able to suppress the
> deprecation warnings, since there is nothing I can do about them
> anyway...
>
> At the most, it would be extremely cool if there was a tool to do most
> of the conversion from actions automagically, but a complete tutorial
> would be enough.
>
> best regards,
> Vlad
>
>


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701480 is a reply to message #1701444] Mon, 13 July 2015 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Dumitrescu is currently offline Vlad DumitrescuFriend
Messages: 431
Registered: July 2009
Location: Gothenburg
Senior Member
Right, thanks Ed, I kind of missed that option.

But the main questions are

- when will these deprecated APIs start to disappear from the platform?

- how do we replace the things that don't have a direct replacement (actionSet, actionSetPartAssociation, editorAction, etc) There are some blog posts that point to using expressions for enablement and such, but they seem limited in scope and with a lot of boilerplate xml. I'd like to have either a conveter from 3.x declarations or an editor that hides all the gory details.

I would try to implement this, but I feel that since nothing happened for three years, there must be some "hidden" issues that make it harder than it looks. I don't have enough expertise to be able to see that by myself.

Tongue-in-cheek, I'd say that the blame for this should fall on Tom Schindl, who did such an awesomely good work with the e4 bridge that allows us to still use the 3.x apis Smile

regards,
Vlad
Re: Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701503 is a reply to message #1701480] Mon, 13 July 2015 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 33108
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.


On 13/07/2015 5:20 PM, Vlad Dumitrescu wrote:
> Right, thanks Ed, I kind of missed that option.
> But the main questions are
>
> - when will these deprecated APIs start to disappear from the platform?
Not until Eclipses 5.0 comes out. I.e., removing them would break APIs
and would dictate a major version increment. I think this can't ever
happen...
> - how do we replace the things that don't have a direct replacement
> (actionSet, actionSetPartAssociation, editorAction, etc) There are
> some blog posts that point to using expressions for enablement and
> such, but they seem limited in scope and with a lot of boilerplate
> xml. I'd like to have either a conveter from 3.x declarations or an
> editor that hides all the gory details.
Yes, we'd all like that, but I doubt anyone will ever do that.
>
>
> I would try to implement this, but I feel that since nothing happened
> for three years, there must be some "hidden" issues that make it
> harder than it looks.
No doubt.
> I don't have enough expertise to be able to see that by myself.
Me neither.
>
> Tongue-in-cheek, I'd say that the blame for this should fall on Tom
> Schindl, who did such an awesomely good work with the e4 bridge that
> allows us to still use the 3.x apis :)
Yes, Tom is like the love of money, the root of much evil. :-P
>
> regards,
> Vlad
>


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701517 is a reply to message #1701503] Mon, 13 July 2015 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Dumitrescu is currently offline Vlad DumitrescuFriend
Messages: 431
Registered: July 2009
Location: Gothenburg
Senior Member
Ed, thanks for the answers.

Quote:

> - when will these deprecated APIs start to disappear from the platform?
Not until Eclipses 5.0 comes out. I.e., removing them would break APIs
and would dictate a major version increment. I think this can't ever
happen...


I hope that I am wrong and am missing an otherwise obvious detail, but these are 3.x APIs, so the major version increment already happened. I would have expected that people would start using the APIs on Eclipse itself - the old ones can still be available, just getting replaced one step at a time.

Since the new APIs haven't been used for the workbench and plugin development, it is possible that when people will try that they will discover issues with them - issues that might warrant API breakage and the need for version 5.0 like you said.

Quote:

> - how do we replace the things that don't have a direct replacement
> (actionSet, actionSetPartAssociation, editorAction, etc) There are
> some blog posts that point to using expressions for enablement and
> such, but they seem limited in scope and with a lot of boilerplate
> xml. I'd like to have either a conveter from 3.x declarations or an
> editor that hides all the gory details.
Yes, we'd all like that, but I doubt anyone will ever do that.


What I am afraid will happen is that this "limbo" will remain the status quo: mixed 3.x and 4.x APIs and implementations; documentation recommending things that only work for RCP apps; devs needing to refer to docs/tutorials that are many years old, unsure if the information is actual or not.

If nobody will do anything about easing up the transition to new APIs, how is it supposed to happen? For RCP, my feeling is that without the bridge, the new APIs and e4 would not have been used. Do not the workbench and the plugins (and their developers) deserve the same?

Actually, what really worries me is that nothing seems to happen in that direction.

BTW, I'm not taking this on you - you are after all one of the main promoters of new fresh cool things in Eclipse! Smile

best regards,
Vlad
Re: Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701660 is a reply to message #1701517] Tue, 14 July 2015 17:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 33108
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Vlad,

Comments below.

On 13/07/2015 9:53 PM, Vlad Dumitrescu wrote:
> Ed, thanks for the answers.
> Quote:
>> > - when will these deprecated APIs start to disappear from the
>> platform?
>> Not until Eclipses 5.0 comes out. I.e., removing them would break
>> APIs and would dictate a major version increment. I think this can't
>> ever happen...
>
>
> I hope that I am wrong and am missing an otherwise obvious detail, but
> these are 3.x APIs, so the major version increment already happened.
No, those APIs are still supported as is and effectively they can't ever
be broken.
> I would have expected that people would start using the APIs on
> Eclipse itself - the old ones can still be available, just getting
> replaced one step at a time.
Very few people have stepped up to e4 API because they're not so focused
on replacing the IDE APIs but rather creating a better RCP platform.
>
> Since the new APIs haven't been used for the workbench and plugin
> development, it is possible that when people will try that they will
> discover issues with them - issues that might warrant API breakage and
> the need for version 5.0 like you said.
That can't happen either. API breakage effectively fractures the
community into two parts: one for the old and one for the new so all
existing technology would need to be rewritten to use the new stuff.
It's possible in principle, but impossible in practice.
>
> Quote:
>> > - how do we replace the things that don't have a direct replacement
>> > (actionSet, actionSetPartAssociation, editorAction, etc) There are
>> > some blog posts that point to using expressions for enablement and
>> > such, but they seem limited in scope and with a lot of boilerplate
>> > xml. I'd like to have either a conveter from 3.x declarations or an
>> > editor that hides all the gory details.
>> Yes, we'd all like that, but I doubt anyone will ever do that.
>
>
> What I am afraid will happen is that this "limbo" will remain the
> status quo: mixed 3.x and 4.x APIs and implementations; documentation
> recommending things that only work for RCP apps; devs needing to refer
> to docs/tutorials that are many years old, unsure if the information
> is actual or not.
Indeed.
>
> If nobody will do anything about easing up the transition to new APIs,
> how is it supposed to happen?
Also a good question.
> For RCP, my feeling is that without the bridge, the new APIs and e4
> would not have been used. Do not the workbench and the plugins (and
> their developers) deserve the same?
Deserving and doing are different things.
>
> Actually, what really worries me is that nothing seems to happen in
> that direction.
I just assume that old APIs will be supported forever. You should too.
In terms of Commands verses Actions though, better to avoid all the old
Action stuff and use Command.
> BTW, I'm not taking this on you - you are after all one of the main
> promoters of new fresh cool things in Eclipse! :)
I try.
>
> best regards,
> Vlad
>


Ed Merks
Professional Support: https://www.macromodeling.com/
Re: Upgrading from deprecated action framework [message #1701672 is a reply to message #1701660] Tue, 14 July 2015 20:07 Go to previous message
Vlad Dumitrescu is currently offline Vlad DumitrescuFriend
Messages: 431
Registered: July 2009
Location: Gothenburg
Senior Member
Ed,

I think I understand what you mean. Thank you again for taking the time to answer.

Quote:

> Actually, what really worries me is that nothing seems to happen in
> that direction.
I just assume that old APIs will be supported forever. You should too.
In terms of Commands verses Actions though, better to avoid all the old
Action stuff and use Command.


The problem in this case is that I may want to use commands, but if the platform still uses and requires actionSets and the like, there is no way it's going to work in a nice and trouble-free way....

regards,
Vlad
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