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CPN editor creation with sirius [message #1701351] Sun, 12 July 2015 12:36 Go to next message
Erlend Rommetveit is currently offline Erlend RommetveitFriend
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2015
Junior Member
Hello.

I am a master student within software development, and I have a thesis regarding the creation of an editor for Coloured Petri Nets (CPN) and originally I was planning on using EMF + GMF to do this, but I stumbled upon Sirius as I was researching, and in the little I've seen it seems like a great tool.
What I am wondering is this: To any of you with knowledge of CPN and Sirius, is this tool powerful enough to create a CPN editor? I don't have unlimited time, so before I decide to switch over to Sirius ( which my guidance councelor knows nothing about ) I'd like to know that it's at least possible.

Thanks
Re: CPN editor creation with sirius [message #1701724 is a reply to message #1701351] Wed, 15 July 2015 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Monnier is currently offline Steve MonnierFriend
Messages: 501
Registered: May 2011
Senior Member
Hello,

I do not really have knowledge on Coloured Petri Nets but if I am right
it should be a diagram displaying rectangle (transition?) or ellipse
(Step?) shapes that are connected to describe some kind of cinematic?
The coloured part is, I guess, a coloration of these shapes depending on
the value of a property or the result of an expression. If this sounds
right then this I think using Sirius is a good idea. Maybe you can find
in the gallery[1] an example that is close to the result you expect.

Regards,
Steve

[1] https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/gallery.html


Le 13/07/2015 16:31, Erlend Rommetveit a écrit :
> Hello.
>
> I am a master student within software development, and I have a thesis
> regarding the creation of an editor for Coloured Petri Nets (CPN) and
> originally I was planning on using EMF + GMF to do this, but I stumbled
> upon Sirius as I was researching, and in the little I've seen it seems
> like a great tool.
> What I am wondering is this: To any of you with knowledge of CPN and
> Sirius, is this tool powerful enough to create a CPN editor? I don't
> have unlimited time, so before I decide to switch over to Sirius ( which
> my guidance councelor knows nothing about ) I'd like to know that it's
> at least possible.
>
> Thanks


--
Steve Monnier - Obeo

Need professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius


Steve Monnier - Obeo
Need training or professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius
Re: CPN editor creation with sirius [message #1702153 is a reply to message #1701724] Mon, 20 July 2015 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erlend Rommetveit is currently offline Erlend RommetveitFriend
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2015
Junior Member
Hello.
You are not totally off the money. CPN consists of places, transitions and arcs between these. Transitions act like events, and places represent the states a system can have when combined with "tokens". Tokens have a type(or a colour), the same type the corresponding place has. So when a transition fires, some expressions on the connected arcs are computed, and tokens can move from one place to another to simulate another state in the system.

So I'm wondering if it's possible to get some graphical representation of the simulation of this "token game" where they move around on the model based on arc expressions. The current CPN editor uses CPN ML (based on Standard ML) for the inscriptions. But I would like this to be flexible.

The closest thing I found in the gallery was the Cinematic Designer by Obeo I think, given that it's based on events and a flow. But it wasn't exactly what I had in mind.

Thanks in advance


Steve Monnier wrote on Wed, 15 July 2015 09:18
Hello,

I do not really have knowledge on Coloured Petri Nets but if I am right
it should be a diagram displaying rectangle (transition?) or ellipse
(Step?) shapes that are connected to describe some kind of cinematic?
The coloured part is, I guess, a coloration of these shapes depending on
the value of a property or the result of an expression. If this sounds
right then this I think using Sirius is a good idea. Maybe you can find
in the gallery an example that is close to the result you expect.

Regards,
Steve




Re: CPN editor creation with sirius [message #1702165 is a reply to message #1702153] Mon, 20 July 2015 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Steve Monnier is currently offline Steve MonnierFriend
Messages: 501
Registered: May 2011
Senior Member
Hello,

The mapping representing your places will require a conditional style[1]
or a style customization[2] that will display the proper color depending
on the token type.

For the simulation, I have to admit that I vizualise some pachinko game,
where you drop a token from the top and it falls through the system and
rebounds on pins (transition). Do you require only an action at the
"root" and it "goes through the transitions" or is it a step by step
process where you need actions at each transition? Anyway, you will need
the algorithm that modifies the semantic model when you
"add/consume/move a token". I do not know if CPN editor provides some
APIs to process this "token game". In your VSM (odesign file) you would
only need to add a tool, like an action/popup menu tool or a double
click tool that execute the algorithm. As the model would be modified,
the places where the token type change will be updated automaticaly and
display the new color, thanks to the conditional style[1] or style
customization[2].

Regards,
Steve


[1]
https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/doc/specifier/diagrams/Diagrams.html#conditional_styles
[2]
https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/doc/specifier/diagrams/Diagrams.html#customization


Le 20/07/2015 13:29, Erlend Rommetveit a écrit :
> Hello.
> You are not totally off the money. CPN consists of places, transitions
> and arcs between these. Transitions act like events, and places
> represent the states a system can have when combined with "tokens".
> Tokens have a type(or a colour), the same type the corresponding place
> has. So when a transition fires, some expressions on the connected arcs
> are computed, and tokens can move from one place to another to simulate
> another state in the system.
>
> So I'm wondering if it's possible to get some graphical representation
> of the simulation of this "token game" where they move around on the
> model based on arc expressions. The current CPN editor uses CPN ML
> (based on Standard ML) for the inscriptions. But I would like this to be
> flexible.
>
> The closest thing I found in the gallery was the Cinematic Designer by
> Obeo I think, given that it's based on events and a flow. But it wasn't
> exactly what I had in mind.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
> Steve Monnier wrote on Wed, 15 July 2015 09:18
>> Hello,
>>
>> I do not really have knowledge on Coloured Petri Nets but if I am
>> right it should be a diagram displaying rectangle (transition?) or
>> ellipse (Step?) shapes that are connected to describe some kind of
>> cinematic? The coloured part is, I guess, a coloration of these shapes
>> depending on the value of a property or the result of an expression.
>> If this sounds right then this I think using Sirius is a good idea.
>> Maybe you can find in the gallery an example that is close to the
>> result you expect.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>
>


--
Steve Monnier - Obeo

Need professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius


Steve Monnier - Obeo
Need training or professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius
Re: CPN editor creation with sirius [message #1702585 is a reply to message #1702165] Thu, 23 July 2015 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erlend Rommetveit is currently offline Erlend RommetveitFriend
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2015
Junior Member
Instead of picturing a token going from the root through the graph, imagine a net where the initial state can have tokens on all places where they are needed, and no root node is apparent. A transition can take a token from an input place and consume it, and produce one or more tokens (not necessarily with the same colour/type) on one or more output places. The tokens consumed and produced are dependent on the expressions on the input and output arcs. So there would be a step by step process.

I guess my initial question has been answered, so I will be using Sirius in my thesis. Thank you very much for your help, and expect that I will be back for another conundrum in the near future Smile

Regards

Erlend

Steve Monnier wrote on Mon, 20 July 2015 12:41
Hello,

The mapping representing your places will require a conditional style[1]
or a style customization[2] that will display the proper color depending
on the token type.

For the simulation, I have to admit that I vizualise some pachinko game,
where you drop a token from the top and it falls through the system and
rebounds on pins (transition). Do you require only an action at the
"root" and it "goes through the transitions" or is it a step by step
process where you need actions at each transition? Anyway, you will need
the algorithm that modifies the semantic model when you
"add/consume/move a token". I do not know if CPN editor provides some
APIs to process this "token game". In your VSM (odesign file) you would
only need to add a tool, like an action/popup menu tool or a double
click tool that execute the algorithm. As the model would be modified,
the places where the token type change will be updated automaticaly and
display the new color, thanks to the conditional style[1] or style
customization[2].

Regards,
Steve


[1]
https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/doc/specifier/diagrams/Diagrams.html#conditional_styles
[2]
https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/doc/specifier/diagrams/Diagrams.html#customization

--
Steve Monnier - Obeo

Need professional services for Sirius?

Re: CPN editor creation with sirius [message #1702589 is a reply to message #1702585] Thu, 23 July 2015 12:27 Go to previous message
Steve Monnier is currently offline Steve MonnierFriend
Messages: 501
Registered: May 2011
Senior Member
Hello,

Ok I see more clearly the process, this is interesting. Good luck for
your thesis. The Sirius team will be ready for your next challenge.

Regards,
Steve

Le 23/07/2015 14:11, Erlend Rommetveit a écrit :
> Instead of picturing a token going from the root through the graph,
> imagine a net where the initial state can have tokens on all places
> where they are needed, and no root node is apparent. A transition can
> take a token from an input place and consume it, and produce one or more
> tokens (not necessarily with the same colour/type) on one or more output
> places. The tokens consumed and produced are dependent on the
> expressions on the input and output arcs. So there would be a step by
> step process.
> I guess my initial question has been answered, so I will be using Sirius
> in my thesis. Thank you very much for your help, and expect that I will
> be back for another conundrum in the near future :)
>
> Regards
>
> Erlend
>
> Steve Monnier wrote on Mon, 20 July 2015 12:41
>> Hello,
>>
>> The mapping representing your places will require a conditional
>> style[1] or a style customization[2] that will display the proper
>> color depending on the token type.
>>
>> For the simulation, I have to admit that I vizualise some pachinko
>> game, where you drop a token from the top and it falls through the
>> system and rebounds on pins (transition). Do you require only an
>> action at the "root" and it "goes through the transitions" or is it a
>> step by step process where you need actions at each transition?
>> Anyway, you will need the algorithm that modifies the semantic model
>> when you "add/consume/move a token". I do not know if CPN editor
>> provides some APIs to process this "token game". In your VSM (odesign
>> file) you would only need to add a tool, like an action/popup menu
>> tool or a double click tool that execute the algorithm. As the model
>> would be modified, the places where the token type change will be
>> updated automaticaly and display the new color, thanks to the
>> conditional style[1] or style customization[2].
>>
>> Regards,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/doc/specifier/diagrams/Diagrams.html#conditional_styles
>>
>> [2]
>> https://www.eclipse.org/sirius/doc/specifier/diagrams/Diagrams.html#customization
>>
>> --
>> Steve Monnier - Obeo
>>
>> Need professional services for Sirius?
>
>


--
Steve Monnier - Obeo

Need professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius


Steve Monnier - Obeo
Need training or professional services for Sirius?
http://www.obeodesigner.com/sirius
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