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General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1696380] Tue, 26 May 2015 08:45 Go to next message
Holger Voormann is currently offline Holger VoormannFriend
Messages: 26
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
What is the advantage of using the new Eclipse Installer as opposed to just downloading and unzipping an Eclipse package? It seems to me that the Eclipse Installer is not an installer (on Windows it does not create shortcuts, neither on the desktop nor in the start menu) but something like a package manager. Probably, Oomph alias the new Eclipse Installer saves disc space and download time when installing different Eclipse packages by sharing the same plug-ins. But why should I install different packages instead of using a single installation with all the plug-ins I need?

I'm also unsure how to uninstall an Eclipse package that has been installed with the Eclipse Installer. On Windows most of the data seems to be stored in "%HOMEPATH%\.p2\pool" and some settings are stored in the "%HOMEPATH%\.eclipse\org.eclipse.oomph.*" directories. Should I first delete the installation directory and then use the Bundle Pool Analysis dialog of the Eclipse Installer to remove the profile and unused artifacts?

The windows version of the Eclipse Installer is a self-extracting ZIP file. Each time you run it, it extracts itself into a new "eoi*" subdirectory of the %TEMP% directory. Is there an easier way to extract it to another location to install it permanently than moving the "eoi*" subdirectory or using a tool like 7-Zip?
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1696389 is a reply to message #1696380] Tue, 26 May 2015 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eike Stepper is currently offline Eike StepperFriend
Messages: 6394
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Am 26.05.2015 um 10:45 schrieb Holger Voormann:
> What is the advantage of using the new Eclipse Installer as opposed to just downloading and unzipping an Eclipse package?
You've answered this question yourself below ;-)

> It seems to me that the Eclipse Installer is not an installer (on Windows it does not create shortcuts, neither on the
> desktop nor in the start menu) but something like a package manager.
Are you suggesting something is an installer only if it creates shortcuts to the installed product?

What is the difference between an installer and a package manager in your opinion?

> Probably, Oomph alias the new Eclipse Installer saves disc space and download time when installing different Eclipse
> packages by sharing the same plug-ins.
Yes, that's a big advantage

> But why should I install different packages instead of using a single installation with all the plug-ins I need?
It's up to you to do that or not. You can switch off the shared bundle pool in the Eclipse Installer menu. Many users
like separate installations because they're easier to keep intact than a big pile of unrelated (but possibly impacting)
plugins. Again, it's up to you.

> I'm also unsure how to uninstall an Eclipse package that has been installed with the Eclipse Installer. On Windows
> most of the data seems to be stored in "%HOMEPATH%\.p2\pool" and some settings are stored in the
> "%HOMEPATH%\.eclipse\org.eclipse.oomph.*" directories. Should I first delete the installation directory
Yes.

> and then use the Bundle Pool Analysis dialog of the Eclipse Installer to remove the profile and unused artifacts?
If you use a shared bundle pool (which is optional) it's up to you to decide when garbage collection is due. It's always
a trade-off between some (temporary?) waste of disk space and potentially slower reinstalls later.

> The windows version of the Eclipse Installer is a self-extracting ZIP file. Each time you run it, it extracts itself
> into a new "eoi*" subdirectory of the %TEMP% directory. Is there an easier way to extract it to another location to
> install it permanently than moving the "eoi*" subdirectory or using a tool like 7-Zip?
Yes, the simple installer on Windows offers a "keep installer" option after a successful installation or when you switch
to the advanced mode of the installer.

Cheers
/Eike

----
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1696411 is a reply to message #1696389] Tue, 26 May 2015 10:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Holger Voormann is currently offline Holger VoormannFriend
Messages: 26
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Thank you for the quick response!

> What is the difference between an installer and a package manager in your opinion?
On Windows I would expect an installer will do the at least the following:
1. Creates files (probably in a subfolder of %PROGRAMFILES% or %PROGRAMFILES(X86)%)
2. Creates an entry in the start menu (and optionally on the desktop) to launch the program
3. Entry in "Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Programs and Features" to uninstall the program

The "Keep Installer" function is very nice. It would be great if this would be available (maybe as a warning) on the start window, too. I like to have "Create start menu entry", "Create desktop shortcut" and "Pin to task bar" also for packages (maybe as options below the "Installation Folder" input field). An entry in "Programs and Features" to uninstall a package would also be very helpful.
Some minor issues on my Eclipse Installer wish list:
- No "by Oomph" because it is confusing for non-Eclipse-experts
- Possibility to download and install Java VMs
- If 32-Bit is chosen then the proposed installation folder should start with "C:\Program Files (x86)\" instead of "C:\Program Files\"

I also have not understood the Oomph preference recording. What must I do to play back these recordings? I switch to the dark theme, but when I switch to a new workspace or when I install a new Eclipse package I will see the default theme.
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1696443 is a reply to message #1696411] Tue, 26 May 2015 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eike Stepper is currently offline Eike StepperFriend
Messages: 6394
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Am 26.05.2015 um 12:41 schrieb Holger Voormann:
> Thank you for the quick response!
>
>> What is the difference between an installer and a package manager in your opinion?
> On Windows I would expect an installer will do the at least the following:
> 1. Creates files (probably in a subfolder of %PROGRAMFILES% or %PROGRAMFILES(X86)%)
> 2. Creates an entry in the start menu (and optionally on the desktop) to launch the program
> 3. Entry in "Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Programs and Features" to uninstall the program
Most people want Eclipse to stay out of the Windows registry.

> The "Keep Installer" function is very nice. It would be great if this would be available (maybe as a warning) on the
> start window, too.
It's very hard to do it right for everybody. See https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=468228 for an example
where people are confused by the entire "keep" mechansim.

> I like to have "Create start menu entry", "Create desktop shortcut" and "Pin to task bar" also for packages (maybe as
> options below the "Installation Folder" input field). An entry in "Programs and Features" to uninstall a package would
> also be very helpful. Some minor issues on my Eclipse Installer wish list:
> - No "by Oomph" because it is confusing for non-Eclipse-experts
IMHO not confusing enough to make us remove it. We have already renamed our Oomph-Installer to Eclipse-Installer. That
should suffice.

> - Possibility to download and install Java VMs
Even if someone would want to spend time on developing such a feature. It would have to rely on carefully maintained
location information. Who would do that job?

> - If 32-Bit is chosen then the proposed installation folder should start with "C:\Program Files (x86)\" instead of
> "C:\Program Files\"
The installer remembers the last used parent folder, but I imagine we could have a special check on Windows to detect
inappropriateness of the special program files folder. Please open a bugzilla.

> I also have not understood the Oomph preference recording. What must I do to play back these recordings?
Nothing. It happens automatically on startup. But you can force a "replay" (we call it manual perform) with "Perform
Setup Tasks..." in the Help menu.

> I switch to the dark theme,
I tried it and I hate it :P

> but when I switch to a new workspace or when I install a new Eclipse package I will see the default theme.
I've tested it and you're right. I see that a whole bunch of preferences gets recorded after changing to Dark theme and
in a new installation they're not used. But this must be a problem with the theming infrastructure. I've tested that
with the normal workbench export/import facility for all preferences and it also fails to restore the selected theme. I
suggest you open a bug against the Platform.

Cheers
/Eike

----
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1779161 is a reply to message #1696389] Wed, 03 January 2018 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nejat Gunaydin is currently offline Nejat GunaydinFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2018
Location: Turkey / Istanbul
Junior Member
The "keep installer" option doen't shown on my laptop. I dont know why? I did many successfull installations in both simple and advanced mode but this "keep installer" option doesn't suggested by installer. Are there a way to force it to do that?
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1779212 is a reply to message #1779161] Thu, 04 January 2018 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 29545
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Are you on Windows? I think switching to advanced mode should also suggest to keep the installer.
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1779269 is a reply to message #1779212] Thu, 04 January 2018 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nejat Gunaydin is currently offline Nejat GunaydinFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2018
Location: Turkey / Istanbul
Junior Member
Yes. " suggest to keep the installer" doesn't happen on one of my laptop with Windows 10.
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1779276 is a reply to message #1779269] Thu, 04 January 2018 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 29545
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Even switching to advanced mode doesn't do that? Where is the executable located?
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1779325 is a reply to message #1779276] Fri, 05 January 2018 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nejat Gunaydin is currently offline Nejat GunaydinFriend
Messages: 3
Registered: January 2018
Location: Turkey / Istanbul
Junior Member
at regular downloads path. C:\Users\nejat\Downloads
This happens on my laptop that my university gave me, but it works at my home pc. Only difference that it has is only a domain link to my university, and I also installed Windows 10 Fall Creators Update from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 . that's all.
Re: General Eclipse Installer questions [message #1779328 is a reply to message #1779325] Fri, 05 January 2018 13:19 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed MerksFriend
Messages: 29545
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I'm not sure what might prevent it from working in some cases, because I've not been able to reproduce that. If you look in your user temp folder while running it, you'll find it unzipped there an can copy that folder...
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