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Mon, 26 July 2004 21:03

Eclipse User

I was wondering why the Web Services Explorer was implemented as an
application in Tomcat instead of a regular Eclipse view?

Also I have Preferences > Server > Installed Runtimes pointing to Tomcat
v5.0, but there is a separate option under Preferences > Web Services >
Server and Runtime that doesn't list Tomcat v5.0 as an option. This is
blocking my attempt to use the wizard to create a web service.

Re: Web Services Explorer [message #32278 is a reply to message #32102]

Tue, 27 July 2004 00:00

Eclipse User

Ed Burnette wrote:
> I was wondering why the Web Services Explorer was implemented as an
> application in Tomcat instead of a regular Eclipse view?
>
> Also I have Preferences > Server > Installed Runtimes pointing to Tomcat
> v5.0, but there is a separate option under Preferences > Web Services >
> Server and Runtime that doesn't list Tomcat v5.0 as an option. This is
> blocking my attempt to use the wizard to create a web service.
>
>
Ed,

We debated the merits of a Web app versus an SWT app a lot. I advocated
the Web app approach because I felt that Web services were essentially
"Webby" and that exploring Web services was a lot like surfing the Web.
I felt the Web app approach would be more productive since it would let
us exploit the rendering capabilities of the Web browser for presenting
information. The idea was that the description of Web services would
would involve linking in HTML and XML documentation and artifacts, and
that rendering these in a Web browser would be easier than using SWT.

FYI, we also developed a very simplified cousin to the Web services
Explorer called the Web Services Discovery Dialog which was implemented
as an SWT dialog. That is part of WebSphere Studio and is not in our
Eclipse contribution. It is used in PageDesigner for accessing Web
services from JSP and JSF apps. We used SWT here because we wanted a
very simplified dialog. This is like the Microsoft Visual Studio .NET
"Add Web Reference" wizard.

The Web app based Web Services Explorer attempts to give you full access
to SOAP, UDDI, WSDL, and even WSIL. It is targetted at Web Service
developers and supports both Publishing and complex Discovery tasks. The
SWT based Web Services Discovery dialog gives JSF/JSP Web app developers
a simple way to discover Web services and access them from their apps.

-- Arthur

Re: Web Services Explorer [message #32877 is a reply to message #32278]

Tue, 27 July 2004 09:45

Eclipse User

Arthur,
My initial impression is that this is something I think should be revisited
as soon as time allows. The Web Services Explorer webapp interface is very
nice as far as it goes but it's not as usable and interactive as a rich
client app would be. For example, it has frames that kind of look like
views, but you can't rearrange them or tear them off. The webapp takes
longer to start and it's not as responsive as a rich client app. Colors are
not the same as the rest of Eclipse. It ties up the editor area (as opposed
to being spread over editors and views). You can't drag and drop objects
between it and the rest of Eclipse. It doesn't tie in with Eclipse help. You
can't have a "Web Services Explorer" perspective that lets you browse and
filter using the full power of the Eclipse workbench (the best you can do is
maximize the editor and work within the webapp).

Using SWT shouldn't it be possible to render everything that the webapp can
render inside regular workbench parts? If you can think of something that is
not possible or is more difficult then let's enumerate that and see if we
can get better support for those things. For example, maybe the Forms UI
could add some feature that would make it easier.

I haven't looked at the code yet for the Web Services Explorer webapp but is
it organized so it could have another presentation put on top of it like a
SWT-based one, without too much trouble?

--
Ed

"Arthur Ryman" <ryman@ca.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:ce4juf$73r$1@eclipse.org...
> We debated the merits of a Web app versus an SWT app a lot. I advocated
> the Web app approach because I felt that Web services were essentially
> "Webby" and that exploring Web services was a lot like surfing the Web.
> I felt the Web app approach would be more productive since it would let
> us exploit the rendering capabilities of the Web browser for presenting
> information. The idea was that the description of Web services would
> would involve linking in HTML and XML documentation and artifacts, and
> that rendering these in a Web browser would be easier than using SWT.

Re: Web Services Explorer [message #35928 is a reply to message #32877]

Mon, 02 August 2004 04:34

Eclipse User

Ed Burnette wrote:
> Arthur,
> My initial impression is that this is something I think should be revisited
> as soon as time allows. The Web Services Explorer webapp interface is very
> nice as far as it goes but it's not as usable and interactive as a rich
> client app would be. For example, it has frames that kind of look like
> views, but you can't rearrange them or tear them off. The webapp takes
> longer to start and it's not as responsive as a rich client app. Colors are
> not the same as the rest of Eclipse. It ties up the editor area (as opposed
> to being spread over editors and views). You can't drag and drop objects
> between it and the rest of Eclipse. It doesn't tie in with Eclipse help. You
> can't have a "Web Services Explorer" perspective that lets you browse and
> filter using the full power of the Eclipse workbench (the best you can do is
> maximize the editor and work within the webapp).
>
> Using SWT shouldn't it be possible to render everything that the webapp can
> render inside regular workbench parts? If you can think of something that is
> not possible or is more difficult then let's enumerate that and see if we
> can get better support for those things. For example, maybe the Forms UI
> could add some feature that would make it easier.
>
> I haven't looked at the code yet for the Web Services Explorer webapp but is
> it organized so it could have another presentation put on top of it like a
> SWT-based one, without too much trouble?
>
Ed,

As I mentioned, we do have a cut down version based on SWT but didn't
contribute it. However, I think that to recreate all the function in the
Web Services Explorer as an SWT app would result in a large amount of
code and effort. We can add this to the list of to do's and will have to
prioritize this wrt to the other work items.

The Requirements Committee is starting up the week. I suggest you send
Jochen a note outling the requirement.

-- Arthur

Re: Web Services Explorer [message #37178 is a reply to message #35928]

Thu, 05 August 2004 18:20

Eclipse User

Originally posted by: jkrause.w4toolkit.com

Arthur Ryman wrote:
> Ed Burnette wrote:
>
>> Arthur,
>> My initial impression is that this is something I think should be
>> revisited
>> as soon as time allows. The Web Services Explorer webapp interface is
>> very
>> nice as far as it goes but it's not as usable and interactive as a rich
>> client app would be. For example, it has frames that kind of look like
>> views, but you can't rearrange them or tear them off. The webapp takes
>> longer to start and it's not as responsive as a rich client app.
>> Colors are
>> not the same as the rest of Eclipse. It ties up the editor area (as
>> opposed
>> to being spread over editors and views). You can't drag and drop objects
>> between it and the rest of Eclipse. It doesn't tie in with Eclipse
>> help. You
>> can't have a "Web Services Explorer" perspective that lets you browse and
>> filter using the full power of the Eclipse workbench (the best you can
>> do is
>> maximize the editor and work within the webapp).
>>
>> Using SWT shouldn't it be possible to render everything that the
>> webapp can
>> render inside regular workbench parts? If you can think of something
>> that is
>> not possible or is more difficult then let's enumerate that and see if we
>> can get better support for those things. For example, maybe the Forms UI
>> could add some feature that would make it easier.
>>
>> I haven't looked at the code yet for the Web Services Explorer webapp
>> but is
>> it organized so it could have another presentation put on top of it
>> like a
>> SWT-based one, without too much trouble?
>>
> Ed,
>
> As I mentioned, we do have a cut down version based on SWT but didn't
> contribute it. However, I think that to recreate all the function in the
> Web Services Explorer as an SWT app would result in a large amount of
> code and effort. We can add this to the list of to do's and will have to
> prioritize this wrt to the other work items.
>
> The Requirements Committee is starting up the week. I suggest you send
> Jochen a note outling the requirement.
>
> -- Arthur
>

Ed,

We are monitoring this newsgroup for requirements, so there is no need
to send an extra mail.

Regards

Jochen

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