Home » Eclipse Projects » Eclipse Platform » How does M8 look like Win XP???
| How does M8 look like Win XP??? [message #226908] |
Mon, 12 April 2004 14:40  |
 Scott Stanchfield
Messages: 263
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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Many people have stated that M8 looks closer to Win XP than M7. Take a
look at the following screenshots I've taken from XP and tell me how it
comes close...
I can't find any app that looks like M8. But if you look at all of the
following, the only ones that really "jump out" as significantly
different are Visual Studio and Office 2003. The rest kind of blend in,
even though different.
It comes down to "subtle" vs "screaming". Office 2003 screams like a
banshee, and Eclipse 3.0M8 is almost as loud.
Pre M8, Eclipse was much more subtle and blended in much better. Again,
it's a bit different in border styles, but it doesn't scream out about
that difference.
Note that there seem to be no completely consistent style to do pane
borders, but the most common ones I've seen are represented in these
screenshots:
All have square-cornered panes, not rounded corners.
http://javadude.com/misc/ab.gif
Windows address book
-- thin etched borders (light blue tint)
http://javadude.com/misc/cm.gif
Windows Computer Management
-- raised, thicker borders
(This seems to be about the most common "sash" I've seen,
but it looks like newer apps are avoiding it)
http://javadude.com/misc/we.gif
Windows Explorer
-- really hard to see borders
http://javadude.com/misc/vs.gif
Visual Studio
-- this is a mess - use it as an anti-example
(esp when you shrink the window like I did for this pic)
-- sashes are almost impossible to tell apart from other stuff
in the panes
-- Tabs are inconsistent (Design/HTML for editor vs output
at bottom, for example) vs the tabs to choose different
files being edited.
Then we get to office 2003
Pretty ugly, and doesn't match anything else in Win XP.
Note the total deviation of toolbars from every other app on windows,
and the inconsistent appearance of sashes.
If they're thinking Office 2003 is the "proper" example of Win XP L&F,
they really need to rethink that. It's the least consistent Windows App
and M$ should be very ashamed...
http://javadude.com/misc/fp.gif
-- Frontpage 2003
probably the closest to M8, but even then, not even close
the tabs are the only
(If this is what they think "native" looks like, why not do the
toolbars as well, and other nauseating eye candy. This is an example of
really bad eye candy, IMHO)
http://javadude.com/misc/ol.gif
-- Outlook 2003
http://javadude.com/misc/ol.gif
-- Word 2003
-- note the two different sash types (splitting the editor and the
task pane
Note that the office apps put different files being edited on the Window
menu. I hate this, and prefer to have tabs easily available...
-- Scott
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| Re: How does M8 look like Win XP??? [message #226988 is a reply to message #226908] |
Mon, 12 April 2004 16:06  |
Eclipse User |
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Originally posted by: nedim.codemonkeys.org
So, which one out of all these examples you think Eclipse should follow?
You showed us four different UIs all on Windows all coming from
Microsoft. Did you send open letter to Bill Gates about this????
Strangely not a single screenshot uses drop-shadow (from Eclipse 2.1)
anywhere! And Windows Address book has that blue border that is so
horrible to you. Icons are all different style/size.
Nothing personal but... Your arguing is way too righteous. You can't
even support your own claims with your own screenshots.
So, can you use these screenshots when you're "selling" the L&F of SWT
apps to show to your clients that there is really no such thing as
consistent UI ;)
It really boils down to personal preference and nothing more. You like
A, someone else likes B. You can hope that future development of UI (any
UI) will be something you will like. But you *can't* expect any UI to
never change. That will just not happen. And maybe once Microsoft sorts
out it's own thoughts, SWT will look like it...
Later.
Scott Stanchfield wrote:
> Many people have stated that M8 looks closer to Win XP than M7. Take a
> look at the following screenshots I've taken from XP and tell me how it
> comes close...
>
> I can't find any app that looks like M8. But if you look at all of the
> following, the only ones that really "jump out" as significantly
> different are Visual Studio and Office 2003. The rest kind of blend in,
> even though different.
>
> It comes down to "subtle" vs "screaming". Office 2003 screams like a
> banshee, and Eclipse 3.0M8 is almost as loud.
>
> Pre M8, Eclipse was much more subtle and blended in much better. Again,
> it's a bit different in border styles, but it doesn't scream out about
> that difference.
>
>
> Note that there seem to be no completely consistent style to do pane
> borders, but the most common ones I've seen are represented in these
> screenshots:
>
> All have square-cornered panes, not rounded corners.
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/ab.gif
> Windows address book
> -- thin etched borders (light blue tint)
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/cm.gif
> Windows Computer Management
> -- raised, thicker borders
> (This seems to be about the most common "sash" I've seen,
> but it looks like newer apps are avoiding it)
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/we.gif
> Windows Explorer
> -- really hard to see borders
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/vs.gif
> Visual Studio
> -- this is a mess - use it as an anti-example
> (esp when you shrink the window like I did for this pic)
> -- sashes are almost impossible to tell apart from other stuff
> in the panes
> -- Tabs are inconsistent (Design/HTML for editor vs output
> at bottom, for example) vs the tabs to choose different
> files being edited.
>
>
> Then we get to office 2003
> Pretty ugly, and doesn't match anything else in Win XP.
> Note the total deviation of toolbars from every other app on windows,
> and the inconsistent appearance of sashes.
> If they're thinking Office 2003 is the "proper" example of Win XP L&F,
> they really need to rethink that. It's the least consistent Windows App
> and M$ should be very ashamed...
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/fp.gif
> -- Frontpage 2003
> probably the closest to M8, but even then, not even close
> the tabs are the only
> (If this is what they think "native" looks like, why not do the
> toolbars as well, and other nauseating eye candy. This is an example of
> really bad eye candy, IMHO)
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/ol.gif
> -- Outlook 2003
>
> http://javadude.com/misc/ol.gif
> -- Word 2003
> -- note the two different sash types (splitting the editor and the
> task pane
>
>
> Note that the office apps put different files being edited on the Window
> menu. I hate this, and prefer to have tabs easily available...
>
>
> -- Scott
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| Re: How does M8 look like Win XP??? [message #227025 is a reply to message #226988] |
Mon, 12 April 2004 17:55 |
Scott Stanchfield
Messages: 263
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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In article <c5eefg$g46$1@eclipse.org>, nedim@codemonkeys.org says...
> So, which one out of all these examples you think Eclipse should follow?
> You showed us four different UIs all on Windows all coming from
> Microsoft. Did you send open letter to Bill Gates about this????
Not my point - my point is that some folks have said M8 looks "more
native", and want to know explicitly why.
If you read my post more thoroughly, you would hear my statements like
"blends" rather than "is exactly like". That's the point of so many
people here. M7 blended well and it didn't jump up and down and scream
"I'm eye candy!"
> Strangely not a single screenshot uses drop-shadow (from Eclipse 2.1)
> anywhere! And Windows Address book has that blue border that is so
> horrible to you. Icons are all different style/size.
Like I said -- there doesn't seem to be a standard for sashes.
The address book has an incredibly subtle blue tint, while M8 has a big
fat blue line.
The drop shadow was much more subtle that the blue. It's a contrast
issue.
Yes I know you can change the color, but I liked the drop shadow...
> It really boils down to personal preference and nothing more. You like
> A, someone else likes B.
The biggest pain is that we like A, A's been around almost three years,
and now it's being stolen from us.
Give us the choice of the old (AS IS) or new L&Fs.
-- Scott
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