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CDT as top level project [message #22101] Mon, 18 March 2002 20:47 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: rfarnum.mindspring.com

I just started using eclipse, and am wondering if the CDT will be treated as
a first class the way that
JDT and PDE are treated.

Specifically, Im referring to http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/index.html

From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project. If its not
easy to find, then how will people
be able to find it, and use it?

The second question is of how tightly coupled eclipse and the jdt are. I
have no problem that eclipse is
written in java, and think this is a 'good thing' tm. It just seems to me
that being a C++ developer, I should
not <B>have</B> to know java to use the eclipse ide. If so, it will only
slow the adoption rate to non java
developers.

I don't mean this as a flame war. But I have two newsgroups I now subscribe
to, one being eclipse.tools
the other eclipse.tools.cdt. I don't know if there is a separate
eclipse.tools.jdt and eclipse.tools.pde or not.
I see quite a few java centric posts in the eclipse.tools that would seem
more relevant to an eclipse.tools.jdt
group, which would help filter out some of the posts that are not. I guess
Im saying Id like to see the newsgroups
reflect the subprojects, ie. platform, jdt, pde, and cdt.

I apologize in advance if this is not the correct forum, Im still digesting
the information. This is just my first impression
and I do want eclipse to succeed.
Re: CDT as top level project [message #22146 is a reply to message #22101] Mon, 18 March 2002 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
C4Eclipse Team is currently offline C4Eclipse TeamFriend
Messages: 65
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Rob,

You're right, there are some inconsistancies with how the Eclipse website
describes and references the different tool sets. There are various reasons why
CDT is treated differently from the other tools. JDT and PDE have been around
for much longer than the CDT. As a result, they have been described and
referenced on the site longer than CDT. Both are aimed at java developers and
at the development of Eclipse, itself. Also, JDT and PDE ship with the base
Eclipse, whereas CDT comprises a separate set of plugins added on to the base
set. Nevertheless, I agree that the website can be confusing and we would like
to see better access to the CDT.

CDT is completely independent of JDT. If you turned off all the JDT and PDE
plugins, CDT would still work. Although it is implemented in java, the CDT is
designed and written with true grassroots C/C++ programmers in mind. No
migration of code, makefiles or changes in core tools is required to use the CDT
to develop C/C++ projects. In most cases, a developer just has to point the
C/C++ Project Wizard to a directory containing C source to get started.

As for the newsgroups, I understand your confusion. Much of the posts on the
"eclipse.tools" newsgroup are for developers of Eclipse plugins. Most Eclipse
plugin developers use the JDT and the PDE to develop those plugins, so quite
often there is overlapping content between Eclipse tool development and Eclipse
tool use. This was the only newsgroup until the CDT entered the picture.
Because of the key differences stated earlier, we wanted to keep CDT separated
from the base Eclipse plugins. What you're saying about separating out the
newsgroups sounds like a good idea. You're best bet for getting that message
out to the right people would be to post it on the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup
(maybe there also needs to be a "eclipse.site" newsgroup).

Dave

Rob Farnum wrote:

> I just started using eclipse, and am wondering if the CDT will be treated as
> a first class the way that
> JDT and PDE are treated.
>
> Specifically, Im referring to http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/index.html
>
> From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project. If its not
> easy to find, then how will people
> be able to find it, and use it?
>
> The second question is of how tightly coupled eclipse and the jdt are. I
> have no problem that eclipse is
> written in java, and think this is a 'good thing' tm. It just seems to me
> that being a C++ developer, I should
> not <B>have</B> to know java to use the eclipse ide. If so, it will only
> slow the adoption rate to non java
> developers.
>
> I don't mean this as a flame war. But I have two newsgroups I now subscribe
> to, one being eclipse.tools
> the other eclipse.tools.cdt. I don't know if there is a separate
> eclipse.tools.jdt and eclipse.tools.pde or not.
> I see quite a few java centric posts in the eclipse.tools that would seem
> more relevant to an eclipse.tools.jdt
> group, which would help filter out some of the posts that are not. I guess
> Im saying Id like to see the newsgroups
> reflect the subprojects, ie. platform, jdt, pde, and cdt.
>
> I apologize in advance if this is not the correct forum, Im still digesting
> the information. This is just my first impression
> and I do want eclipse to succeed.
Re: CDT as top level project [message #22191 is a reply to message #22101] Mon, 18 March 2002 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeff Turnham is currently offline Jeff TurnhamFriend
Messages: 67
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Rob,

Don't worry about starting a flame war, these are exactly the kinds of
comments we (the CDT developers) want to hear.

> From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project.
The reason that the CDT doesn't appear as a "Project" is that is actually a
sub-project of the "Tools" project which is eventually going to be the home
to other projects as well (yes it is a little confusing). We (the CDT) are
the first "Tools" sub-project. We agree that eclipse.org does not do a
great job of making the Tools Project visible, and are currently working on
a proposal for improvements to the site.

> It just seems to me that being a C++ developer, I should not <B>have</B>
to know java to use the eclipse ide.
You don't have to know Java to use the Eclipse IDE. Specifically, once you
download the Eclipse Base, and the CDT you then create "C/C++ Projects"
instead of "Java Projects" and never have to work with any java. You may
then ask why you are downloading the JDT if you're never going to use it?
The Eclipse Base includes "everything" that a Tool Developer (such as the
CDT team) should need to develop plugins. Since Plugins (or at least a part
of them) are written in java, the JDT is included. I suppose it is possible
that Eclipse could provide builds that only include the base and omit the
JDT and PDE, but there may be hidden dependencies that make this not
possible. If you asked that question on "eclipse.tools" I'm sure you'd get
a response.

> I don't know if there is a separate eclipse.tools.jdt and
eclipse.tools.pde or not.
There are the 2 newsgroups "eclipse.tools" and "eclipse.tools.cdt", and you
are correct that the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup is home to discussion about
the base platform, the JDT and the PDE. There has been a few posts
suggesting that the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup be split up, but I haven't
heard that it is happening. I would suggest that you ask that question on
"eclipse.tools" as someone from the Eclipse team might know.

Thanks for the comments...

Jeff Turnham



"Rob Farnum" <rfarnum@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:a75iql$f2c$1@rogue.oti.com...
> I just started using eclipse, and am wondering if the CDT will be treated
as
> a first class the way that
> JDT and PDE are treated.
>
> Specifically, Im referring to http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/index.html
>
> From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project. If its not
> easy to find, then how will people
> be able to find it, and use it?
>
> The second question is of how tightly coupled eclipse and the jdt are. I
> have no problem that eclipse is
> written in java, and think this is a 'good thing' tm. It just seems to me
> that being a C++ developer, I should
> not <B>have</B> to know java to use the eclipse ide. If so, it will only
> slow the adoption rate to non java
> developers.
>
> I don't mean this as a flame war. But I have two newsgroups I now
subscribe
> to, one being eclipse.tools
> the other eclipse.tools.cdt. I don't know if there is a separate
> eclipse.tools.jdt and eclipse.tools.pde or not.
> I see quite a few java centric posts in the eclipse.tools that would seem
> more relevant to an eclipse.tools.jdt
> group, which would help filter out some of the posts that are not. I
guess
> Im saying Id like to see the newsgroups
> reflect the subprojects, ie. platform, jdt, pde, and cdt.
>
> I apologize in advance if this is not the correct forum, Im still
digesting
> the information. This is just my first impression
> and I do want eclipse to succeed.
>
>
>
Re: CDT as top level project [message #22234 is a reply to message #22191] Tue, 19 March 2002 01:47 Go to previous message
Peter Manahan is currently offline Peter ManahanFriend
Messages: 131
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
--------------050305050307040904050107
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Just a comment on pulling out the JDT and PDE.

If you download the eclipse "platform" not the SDK (which is the first
thing in list you) will get a barebones eclipse without the JDT or PDE.
You can look at the platform download as the "JRE" version of eclipse
(i.e just the eclipse runtime). The main default download is the SDK
which is of course similar to "Java SDK" in purpose. (i.e. the Eclipse
SDK is used to develop code for the eclipse platform just as a Java SDK
is for developing for the "java" platform).

The platform downloads all start with "eclipse-platform".

HTH
Peter

Jeff Turnham wrote:

>Hi Rob,
>
>Don't worry about starting a flame war, these are exactly the kinds of
>comments we (the CDT developers) want to hear.
>
>>From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project.
>>
>The reason that the CDT doesn't appear as a "Project" is that is actually a
>sub-project of the "Tools" project which is eventually going to be the home
>to other projects as well (yes it is a little confusing). We (the CDT) are
>the first "Tools" sub-project. We agree that eclipse.org does not do a
>great job of making the Tools Project visible, and are currently working on
>a proposal for improvements to the site.
>
>>It just seems to me that being a C++ developer, I should not <B>have</B>
>>
>to know java to use the eclipse ide.
>You don't have to know Java to use the Eclipse IDE. Specifically, once you
>download the Eclipse Base, and the CDT you then create "C/C++ Projects"
>instead of "Java Projects" and never have to work with any java. You may
>then ask why you are downloading the JDT if you're never going to use it?
>The Eclipse Base includes "everything" that a Tool Developer (such as the
>CDT team) should need to develop plugins. Since Plugins (or at least a part
>of them) are written in java, the JDT is included. I suppose it is possible
>that Eclipse could provide builds that only include the base and omit the
>JDT and PDE, but there may be hidden dependencies that make this not
>possible. If you asked that question on "eclipse.tools" I'm sure you'd get
>a response.
>
>>I don't know if there is a separate eclipse.tools.jdt and
>>
>eclipse.tools.pde or not.
>There are the 2 newsgroups "eclipse.tools" and "eclipse.tools.cdt", and you
>are correct that the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup is home to discussion about
>the base platform, the JDT and the PDE. There has been a few posts
>suggesting that the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup be split up, but I haven't
>heard that it is happening. I would suggest that you ask that question on
>"eclipse.tools" as someone from the Eclipse team might know.
>
>Thanks for the comments...
>
>Jeff Turnham
>
>
>
>"Rob Farnum" <rfarnum@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:a75iql$f2c$1@rogue.oti.com...
>
>>I just started using eclipse, and am wondering if the CDT will be treated
>>
>as
>
>>a first class the way that
>>JDT and PDE are treated.
>>
>>Specifically, Im referring to http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/index.html
>>
>>From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project. If its not
>>easy to find, then how will people
>>be able to find it, and use it?
>>
>>The second question is of how tightly coupled eclipse and the jdt are. I
>>have no problem that eclipse is
>>written in java, and think this is a 'good thing' tm. It just seems to me
>>that being a C++ developer, I should
>>not <B>have</B> to know java to use the eclipse ide. If so, it will only
>>slow the adoption rate to non java
>>developers.
>>
>>I don't mean this as a flame war. But I have two newsgroups I now
>>
>subscribe
>
>>to, one being eclipse.tools
>>the other eclipse.tools.cdt. I don't know if there is a separate
>>eclipse.tools.jdt and eclipse.tools.pde or not.
>>I see quite a few java centric posts in the eclipse.tools that would seem
>>more relevant to an eclipse.tools.jdt
>>group, which would help filter out some of the posts that are not. I
>>
>guess
>
>>Im saying Id like to see the newsgroups
>>reflect the subprojects, ie. platform, jdt, pde, and cdt.
>>
>>I apologize in advance if this is not the correct forum, Im still
>>
>digesting
>
>>the information. This is just my first impression
>>and I do want eclipse to succeed.
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--------------050305050307040904050107
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<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
Just a comment on pulling out the JDT and PDE.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;If you download the eclipse "platform" not the SDK (which is the first thing
in list you) will get a barebones eclipse without the JDT or PDE. &nbsp;You can
look at the platform download as the "JRE" version of eclipse (i.e just the
eclipse runtime). &nbsp;The main default download is the SDK which is of course
similar to "Java SDK" in purpose. (i.e. the Eclipse SDK is used to develop
code for the eclipse platform just as a Java SDK is for developing for the
"java" platform). <br>
<br>
The platform downloads all start with "eclipse-platform".<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
Jeff Turnham wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:a75p6c$h7b$1@rogue.oti.com">
<pre wrap="">Hi Rob,<br><br>Don't worry about starting a flame war, these are exactly the kinds of<br>comments we (the CDT developers) want to hear.<br><br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project.<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->The reason that the CDT doesn't appear as a "Project" is that is actually a<br>sub-project of the "Tools" project which is eventually going to be the home<br>to other projects as well (yes it is a little confusing). We (the CDT) are<br>the first "Tools" sub-project. We agree that eclipse.org does not do a<br>great job of making the Tools Project visible, and are currently working on<br>a proposal for improvements to the site.<br><br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">It just seems to me that being a C++ developer, I should not &lt;B&gt;have&lt;/B&gt;<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->to know java to use the eclipse ide.<br>You don't have to know Java to use the Eclipse IDE. Specifically, once you<br>download the Eclipse Base, and the CDT you then create "C/C++ Projects"<br>instead of "Java Projects" and never have to work with any java. You may<br>then ask why you are downloading the JDT if you're never going to use it?<br>The Eclipse Base includes "everything" that a Tool Developer (such as the<br>CDT team) should need to develop plugins. Since Plugins (or at least a part<br>of them) are written in java, the JDT is included. I suppose it is possible<br>that Eclipse could provide builds that only include the base and omit the<br>JDT and PDE, but there may be hidden dependencies that make this not<br>possible. If you asked that question on "eclipse.tools" I'm sure you'd get<br>a response.<br><br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I don't know if there is a separate eclipse.tools.jdt and<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->eclipse.tools.pde or not.<br>There are the 2 newsgroups "eclipse.tools" and "eclipse.tools.cdt", and you<br>are correct that the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup is home to discussion about<br>the base platform, the JDT and the PDE. There has been a few posts<br>suggesting that the "eclipse.tools" newsgroup be split up, but I haven't<br>heard that it is happening. I would suggest that you ask that question on<br>"eclipse.tools" as someone from the Eclipse team might know.<br><br>Thanks for the comments...<br><br>Jeff Turnham<br><br><br><br>"Rob Farnum" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rfarnum@mindspring.com">&lt;rfarnum@mindspring.com&gt;</a> wrote in message<br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="news:a75iql$f2c$1@rogue.oti.com">news:a75iql$f2c$1@rogue.oti.com</a>...<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I just started using eclipse, and am wondering if the CDT will be treated<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->as<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">a first class the way that<br>JDT and PDE are treated.<br><br>Specifically, Im referring to <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/index.html">http://www.eclipse.org/eclipse/index.html</a><br><br>From there, its not obvious that there even is a CDT project. If its not<br>easy to find, then how will people<br>be able to find it, and use it?<br><br>The second question is of how tightly coupled eclipse and the jdt are. I<br>have no problem that eclipse is<br>written in java, and think this is a 'good thing' tm. It just seems to me<br>that being a C++ developer, I should<br>not &lt;B&gt;have&lt;/B&gt; to know java to use the eclipse ide. If so, it will only<br>slow the adoption rate to non java<br>developers.<br><br>I don't mean this as a flame war. But I have two newsgroups I now<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->subscribe<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">to, one being eclipse.tools<br>the other eclipse.tools.cdt. I don't know if there is a separate<br>eclipse.tools.jdt and eclipse.tools.pde or not.<br>I see quite a few java centric posts in the eclipse.tools that would seem<br>more relevant to an eclipse.tools.jdt<br>group, which would help filter out some of the posts that are not. I<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->guess<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Im saying Id like to see the newsgroups<br>reflect the subprojects, ie. platform, jdt, pde, and cdt.<br><br>I apologize in advance if this is not the correct forum, Im still<br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->digesting<br></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the information. This is just my first impression<br>and I do want eclipse to succeed.<br><br><br><br></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br><br></pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

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