Home » Language IDEs » C / C++ IDE (CDT) » Do you really need to use Eclipse?
 Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #544010] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 10:44  |
Eclipse User |
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Think twice before downloading the eclipse. Eclipse is good open source software. It is customizable as user desires. But for a newbie the software might be complicated to use. For example the c/c++ programmers often says that they can not run the software in windows/Linux because either the launcher or the compiler is not configured, and there is no straight forward and easy to understandable answer. As a result users stick on it and lose too much time and energy. Another confusion is that Eclipse c/c++ ide or the Wascana? Many users do not know about the Wascana or what it is. I can say that Wascana is based on Eclipse and it has a c compiler with itself but Eclipse ide for c/c++ does not have any compiler at all.
For those who wants to learn c/c++ in eclipse I would suggest you not to use it at first time. Use any other comparatively easy and simple ide to learn the language. Else you have to understood the ide first, then compiler settings where to place it etc etc. As a result your aim of learning the language will be diminished. I can suggest you to use dev c++ ide (with MinGW compiler). And for the command line users MinGW compiler for windows. You can use turbo c++ 4.5 ide. But this is not available on internet any more. All the things I said till now depending on Windows XP only. I do not use Linux because in Linux most of the software has to install in online. Hence many users who don't have internet connection faces trouble to install software packages manually.
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| Re: Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #544050 is a reply to message #544010] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 13:18  |
 Giuseppe Montalto
Messages: 18
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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| abc7 wrote on Thu, 01 July 2010 06:44 |
Think twice before downloading the eclipse.
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Think twice before...flaming on something that you, probably, don't know well enough... 
Dev-C++ only runs on Windows hosts, its main target was to provide a free IDE with "the same look and feel of Visual Studio".
Its last official release is dated 2005 (quite old, isn't it?) and it was a beta, AFAIK.
Indeed it's a good tool (not only) for beginners but, IMHO, quite limited, with respect to what Eclipse/CDT can offer.
Probably, it's wrong to even try to compare it with Eclipse/CDT: simply, they're not competing in the same market.
rgds,
GM
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| Re: Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #544064 is a reply to message #544010] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 13:31 |
Michael Jackson
Messages: 28
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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On 7/1/10 6:44 AM, in article i0hrj9$s82$1@build.eclipse.org, "abc7" wrote:
> Think twice before downloading the eclipse. Eclipse is good open source
> software. It is customizable as user desires. But for a newbie the software
> might be complicated to use. For example the c/c++ programmers often says that
> they can not run the software in windows/Linux because either the launcher or
> the compiler is not configured, and there is no straight forward and easy to
> understandable answer. As a result users stick on it and lose too much time
> and energy. Another confusion is that Eclipse c/c++ ide or the Wascana? Many
> users do not know about the Wascana or what it is. I can say that Wascana is
> based on Eclipse and it has a c compiler with itself but Eclipse ide for c/c++
> does not have any compiler at all.
>
>
> For those who wants to learn c/c++ in eclipse I would suggest you not to use
> it at first time. Use any other comparatively easy and simple ide to learn the
> language. Else you have to understood the ide first, then compiler settings
> where to place it etc etc. As a result your aim of learning the language will
> be diminished. I can suggest you to use dev c++ ide (with MinGW compiler). And
> for the command line users MinGW compiler for windows. You can use turbo c++
> 4.5 ide. But this is not available on internet any more. All the things I said
> till now depending on Windows XP only. I do not use Linux because in Linux
> most of the software has to install in online. Hence many users who don't have
> internet connection faces trouble to install software packages manually.
I think that you need to think twice as a new programmer whether or not you
should be using an IDE. It is my feeling that those new to programming have
too much to learn as it is. You have the language syntax, how to invoke the
compiler, how to invoke the linker, what compiler flags are necessary, how
to decipher compiler error messages. All of this is overwhelming for a new
programmer. Add to that all the complexities of a modern IDE and a new
programmer simply will not know where to start.
I generally start out my programmers with a text editor and a terminal
where they can simply invoke the compiler. After they have a very good
understanding of how the compile/fix/run/debug process works then they can
start using an IDE and learning how the IDE can help them increase their
productivity.
I would suggest you first learn the basics of programming and compiling so
that when you encounter errors in an IDE you can figure out if the problem
is in your code or something with the IDE itself.
As others have posted, if you have specific issues, please post your
questions to the appropriate mailing list or newsgroup and let the community
help you out.
Mike Jackson
Principal Software Engineer
BlueQuartz Software.
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| Re: Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #544115 is a reply to message #544010] |
Thu, 01 July 2010 15:36 |
John McCabe
Messages: 228
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
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On Thu, 01 Jul 2010 06:44:56 -0400, abc7 <chandan.200@rediffmail.com>
wrote:
> Think twice before downloading the eclipse. Eclipse is good open
> source software. It is customizable as user desires. But for a newbie
> the software might be complicated to use. For example the c/c++
> programmers often says that they can not run the software in
> windows/Linux because either the launcher or the compiler is not
> configured, and there is no straight forward and easy to
> understandable answer. As a result users stick on it and lose too
> much time and energy. Another confusion is that Eclipse c/c++ ide or
> the Wascana? Many users do not know about the Wascana or what it is.
> I can say that Wascana is based on Eclipse and it has a c compiler
> with itself but Eclipse ide for c/c++ does not have any compiler at
> all.
> For those who wants to learn c/c++ in eclipse I would suggest you not
> to use it at first time. Use any other comparatively easy and simple
> ide to learn the language. Else you have to understood the ide first,
> then compiler settings where to place it etc etc. As a result your
> aim of learning the language will be diminished. I can suggest you to
> use dev c++ ide (with MinGW compiler). And for the command line users
> MinGW compiler for windows. You can use turbo c++ 4.5 ide. But this
> is not available on internet any more. All the things I said till now
> depending on Windows XP only. I do not use Linux because in Linux
> most of the software has to install in online. Hence many users who
> don't have internet connection faces trouble to install software
> packages manually.
I think you're giving mixed messages here. The gist of your, err,
comment gives the impression that you think, for learning a language
such as C++, you should ignore IDEs yet you go on to suggest using a
couple of IDEs that don't appear to be maintained or even available
now instead.
For what it's worth, Eclipse in my opinion (at least, if you start
with the Wascana installation which makes sure you have everything you
need to get started on Windows) is a very simple IDE to start learning
the language with although, to be honest, if you're a complete and
utter novice I agree with Mike's suggestion that you shoud be using
command line tools and a text editor to get you off on the right path.
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| Re: Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #545371 is a reply to message #545334] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 14:39 |
Edzard Egberts
Messages: 57
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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> It seems that using MSVC Express Edition is a lot simpler for beginners:
> all included, debugger just works as expected. So my advice is obvious
> for users on windows platform.
This way they always will stay beginners and become addicted to
Microsoft. In the groups I often met people, who didn't know about
difference between IDE, libraries and programming language - they think
that's all "Visual C++" (and different to "Standard C++") and ask for
special IDE themes in C++ groups - really awful!
At first a beginner should learn about the basics like compiler,
debugger, makefile, C++ language, libraries and editors as different
bricks of programming and after that it is easy to understand, what an
IDE is "Integrating". Eclipse is nothing than a better text editor
(please don't throw pigs and dogs on me - they are sensitive creatures
;o) and when a beginner had learnt this, he can use any editor or IDE
and even choose between compilers, i.e. for cross compiling, operating
systems and GUI libraries. This is much too essential than it makes
sense, to protect the beginner from complicated and hard world of
programming (it's really wrong to tell them, there will be something
easy, and they should learn this from beginning ;o).
MSVC is absolutely the last thing I would recommend to a beginner! It
makes addicted to a manufacturer, an operating system and a business
model - as soon as the user wants to give a program away, the problems
regarding licensing and costs starts. Than a professional edition is
needed and every professional MS developer should join MSDN to stay up
to date (he really should!). This makes things expensive and some years
ago I minded it better to buy a new hardware for slow eclipse, than
using the same money for a faster MS-Editor.
Moreover MSVC is not easy, but really complicated and not understandable
to a beginner, because it offers thousands of ways (most of them MS
specific) to solve a problem. But a beginner should learn, to solve
problems for himself, not to choose between ready made solutions and
clicking them together and he should know about standards, not about
thousands of proprietary libraries.
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| Re: Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #545418 is a reply to message #545417] |
Wed, 07 July 2010 17:07 |
Michael Jackson
Messages: 28
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
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On 7/7/10 12:20 PM, in article i129i1$qjs$1@build.eclipse.org, "Edzard
Egberts" wrote:
> Michael Jackson wrote:
>> On 7/7/10 10:39 AM, in article i123kn$7aq$1@build.eclipse.org, "Edzard
>> Egberts" wrote:
>>
>>> - as soon as the user wants to give a program away, the problems
>>> regarding licensing and costs starts..
>>
>> Um, regarding the licensing and pricing this is just plain wrong. MSVC 2008
>> (and I am assuming 2010) do NOT hinder development and distribution of your
>> code (or any other code) whether commercial or open source with restrictive
>> licensing. MS went softer with these types of restrictions with these newer
>> versions so you can develop your code under MSVC and distribute or sell it
>> without paying MS any type of royalty or licensing fees.
>
> Okay, my knowledge is probably outdated, because I stopped using
> Microsoft products around year 2002. At that time a VC professional was
> necessary, when someone wants to distribute commercial software and it
> was priced like a new PC.
It isn't like that anymore. MS differentiates the products based on features
not "how" you distribute. The terms are easy to find on the MSN web site but
I specifically looked into the licensing when I was trying to figure out
which version I needed. The pro version gets you some more features (like 64
bit compiles in the 2008 version) that you might or might not need in
addition to some other features.
Note: This is not an endorsement of MSVC by ME. Just simply correcting the
information. For the record I use MSVC, Eclipse, Xcode, Qt Creator and Emacs
to do code development. All of which is driven by CMake.
Mike Jackson
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| Re: Do you really need to use Eclipse? [message #545564 is a reply to message #545446] |
Thu, 08 July 2010 09:10 |
Edzard Egberts
Messages: 57
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
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Nobody schrieb:
> Michael Jackson wrote on Wed, 07 July 2010 13:07
>> For the record I use MSVC, Eclipse, Xcode, Qt Creator and Emacs
>> to do code development. All of which is driven by CMake.
>
> Is that true that MSVC debugger is the best tool for debugging C++ code
> among all this IDEs? I have not used Xcode, but have problems with
> debugging in all other.
In comparison to gdb the MSVC debugger is better when using Windows. GDB
is not able to stop the program and doesn't care about breakpoints in
contructors. This depends on programs binary format - the Unix ELF
format allows all these things, so gdb under Unix/Linux is as powerful,
as MSVC under Windows. Naturally MS is more better able to deal with
their own binary format (for the moment I forgot name of windows format,
maybe someone can help?). MSVC under Linux is not working, so on this
side there is no comparison possible.
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